I will probably get several flames for this, but I do feel rather strongly
about this. (If you feel so inclined for a flame, please send to
/dev/null.) Also, these comments are not targeted at Mr. Kirk's abilities
nor do they have anything to do with the company where I work.

A University degree can give you something that hopefully will be made
illegal or at least unethical in the future, and this thing is the title of
Engineer. Before the advent of software development and especially since
the last 10 years, the title of Engineer was given only to those people who
have been professionally trained and educated through a post-secondary
education at a College or University. Now a days, the title of Engineer is
as common as analyst or assistant, and the meaning has been diluted to the
point of almost not meaning anything.

This may sound a lot like being snooty, but we are in a state of computer
evolution where anyone can hang out a shingle and call themselves anything.
This is one of the reasons for the CISSP. However, I don't think that the
CISSP alone can give anyone the real "right" to be called a security
professional nor the title of a security engineer. In the same stream of
thought, why not just be called a "Doctor" of Security? A PhD is just a
degree much like the BS of an Engineering degree just more specialized.

So if you really want to help our industry become more professional with a
certain level of expertise denoted by a level of education, knowledge, and
experience, then please get a degree. Otherwise, shingles R us is waiting
for you too. Many many years ago the medical and legal professions were in
the same state. So I'm still hopeful.

Ron Ogle
Rennes, France

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hmmmm [mailto:jp.kirk@erols.com]
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 4:03 AM
> Cc: cisspstudy@securityfocus.com
> Subject: Re: Do i need to go to university ?
>
>
> I don't have a degree and I have a great job as a Senior Network
> Security Engineer. I also have 18 years of experience. I would have
> been much further along in my career much sooner had I finished my
> BSEE. I spent six years at a national laboratory and never
> made it into
> the ranks of the sys admins, even though I had done that work for many
> years prior. Granted, national laboratories are degree centric.
>
> A 4 year degree opens doors. It opens many doors. I would say that
> more industries than not at least desire a four year degree.
> Just look
> in the paper. I can't tell how many times I was turned away
> from jobs I
> knew I could do because I did not have a four year degree and some one
> with less experience (here is where I show how much of a snob I really
> am) and quite frankly, were rather dim, did and got the job. A four
> year degree shows that you have the talent and the drive to complete a
> long term task. It also shows that you can jump through hoops. :)
> BTW, you don't need to get a degree in Computer Science. Most job
> opportunities in our field ask for EE or CS or "related
> field". Figure
> out what your long term goals are and decide if those goals would
> benefit from a 4 year degree.
>
> Scott is correct to a certain point. You do need to do it for
> yourself. Pick a program you like. Don't be afraid to shop around.
> Many large organizations are looking at people with degrees from
> non-traditional universities. It is the rage. You could
> work and take
> classes on-line. There are many ways to approach it.
>
> Good luck in your endeavors.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
> James P Kirk | email:
> jp.kirk@erols.com
> MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, CCSA
> Certified Internet/Intranet Security Professional
> --------------------------------------------------------------

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