Neohapsis is currently accepting applications for employment. For more information, please visit our website www.neohapsis.com or email email@example.com
From: Gadi Evron (gelinuxbox.org)
Date: Sat Jun 30 2007 - 11:23:23 CDT
I don't believe there is anything in this thread which helps any of
us, but although there is some limited truth I can agree to in what you
write, equating information warfare to vulnerabilities is like equating war
Yes, important analogies and correlations do exist, but it is
irresponsible if given as empiric advice. Warfare is far from JUST the
technology used, and if we are to listen to Clausewitz (who I humbly disagree
with on this one point), completely irrelevant.
You mentioned some interesting points on that vulnerabilities are
ammuniction, of sorts, and that some vendors such as SCADA vendors are
as clueless as most of the vendors we deal with were 10 years ago
(rephrazing). Thess are important points.
But your analogy of "information warfare, vulnerability less or more" is
a simplification I can't live with.
On 2007-06-30 10:35+0300, Ari Takanen wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:02:12 +1200
>> From: lyndon sutherland <lyndonsparadise.net.nz>
>> Subject: Re: [Dailydave] With great responsibility comes great power.
>> To: dailydavelists.immunitysec.com
>> More seriously though, the paper "Cyber Warfare, An analysis of the
>> means and motivations of selected nation states" from Dartmouth provides
>> some insights:
>> The paper is dated December 2004 so could be considered a little dated
>> but certainly in my opinion worth a read.
>Thanks for the link! Browsing through the 142 pages of speculation,
>they finally caught the key point in two lines on page 132:
>"Resolve currently known software and hardware vulnerabilities in
>operating systems, server software, SCADA systems, and DCS systems."
>One could even take this further and say: Identify all critical
>systems (network equipment, operating systems, server software, client
>software, SCADA systems, and DCS systems), and test them for
>previously unknown security vulnerabilities using all possible
>means. For those systems that are used in critical systems, resolve
>all found or currently known software and hardware vulnerabilities.
>The situation in cyber-war is very simple:
>* attack capability: how many vulnerabilities (publicly known or
> unknown) you know about (accurate metric)
>* defense capability: how many vulnerabilities (known or unknown) you
> have in your systems (estimate metric)
>* threat: how many attack programs against those the opponent has
> (estimate metric)
>Fix the flaws you have, and you are secure. Do not fix the flaws that
>the opponent has, and you have ammunition. The strength has nothing to
>do with the size of the budget. Unfortunately today you do not need to
>spend any resources to have a cyberwar capability. Attacks are freely
>available, and most defenses are down.
>The greatest weakness today is that nobody is interested in testing
>the defense capability. If I showed a SCADA vendor a bunch of
>minus-infinity-day (well, it is not a zero-day if nobody but me knows
>about it) flaws they asked me if their customers knew about these
>flaws. You know what happens if I said their customers will never know
>about those flaws. That was several years ago, and the flaws are still
>there, waiting for their adversaries to find them.
>Most vendors are not interested in investing into proactive
>security. When the flaws are not known by anyone but a trusted party,
>they will not be fixed. When the vendors will be made to understand
>that this is the wrong attitude to security, we would not need public
>disclosure any more. Eliminating public disclosure in one way or the
>other would change the landscape significantly! People would have to
>find their own vulnerabilities to be able to exploit them.
>Ari Takanen Codenomicon Ltd.
>ari.takanencodenomicon.com Tutkijantie 4E
>tel: +358-40 50 67678 FIN-90570 Oulu
>Dailydave mailing list
"beepbeep it, i leave work, stop reading sec lists and im still hearing
- HD Moore to Gadi Evron on IM, on Gadi's interview on npr, March 2007.
Dailydave mailing list