So I have to ask, perhaps retorhically, who all expects to make money
by selling prism2-based (or other WLAN) hardware to Linux users and why
aren't they supporting the OS effort to the require level?

It's not like I acquired my hardware for free. Somebody got my money
for that, and I'd like to think that a slice of that would go to
Mark for doing his OS work. The hardware ain't nothin without the drivers
and the powers that be need to understand that.

Terry Griffin

P.S. And I'm also a patch contributor, so I've given more than just my
money. It can't be a one-way deal. Somebody has to give back.

>
> Hi Scott and all,
>
> Disclaimer: I'm cross posting this to both user and devel.
>
> Hello after a long absence for which I apologize for and will probably
> continue in the near term.
>
> Here are the facts of the matter:
>
> 1) AVS is a business that feeds and clothes a number of employees and
> their families.
> 2) Our paying customers will always come first
> 3) Whatever time is left is allocated to support the Open Source code as
> best we can with the time available.
>
> Over the past six months, our time has been completely consumed with
> tradeshows, geographically moving our business, supporting our existing
> customers and developing new products. Hence my absence from the list and
> no new releases of the OS code. When I say completely consumed, we're not
> just talking about consuming 40 hour weeks. It's much, much more.
>
> That doesn't mean that nothing has been happening. I have been collecting
> patches, lurking on the lists, and sending out occasional directed support
> mail. The directed mail is so I don't get pulled into long threads.
>
> Additionally, I've spent the last five days working on a new release (and
> put aside my other work to do so). I'm deparately _trying_ to get it out
> on Friday or Saturday. So far, I've spent all of the time applying
> submitted patches and performing tests. I have yet to code anything
> earthshatteringly new myself. One side note: When this next release goes
> out, I won't be available to answer questions....I'll be on travel all
> next week. :-(
>
> If any apologies are due, they are due to patch submitters. I have not
> responded on these as quickly as I should. The trouble is primarily a
> testing issue. Even simple testing is a time-consuming process, and it's
> difficult for us to allocate the time and resources (computers/cards/RF
> channels) to perform these tests when we're also testing our commercial
> stuff. Secondly, I'm really, really short of time right now.
>
> We at AVS are aware of all of these issues and desperately looking for
> ways to improve our support. I'm trying to figure out a way that I can
> allocate a fixed amount of time to the OS code each week. This hasn't
> worked out yet. Part of this is because AVS has been floating: we've
> recently moved our offices (and my household) to a new city (namely
> Melbourne, FL). The office is currently in temporary space with everyone
> sharing 1 56K modem connection to the 'Net. We're moving into our
> permanent space later this week. Yeah! Our broadband connection will be
> back. Soon, I hope, things will even out to some semblance of normalcy.
>
> The reason I mentioned the connection.....that's why the FTP site and
> mailing lists aren't fixed. I have a new host to move everything
> to. It's just very remote and getting to it through the stupid modem is
> so unpleasant that I decided to wait until we're in the new office with
> the high-speed connection.
>
> In regards to the prism2dl decision: I stand by it and always will. We
> are a business...and a legal target. People can and have (which I've seen
> in my lurking) ruined cards such that they can't even be fixed by the
> manufacturer. The reasons for this are not well documented ANYWHERE or
> under any legal terms. It has taken me a long time to accumulate the
> knowledge to get it right and the chances of my successfully supporting
> someone via e-mail or telephone and getting the load right are extremely
> remote. Even I still screw up cards from time-to-time (you should see my
> desk drawer full of broken cards ;-). We just can't expose ourselves to
> that kind of risk.
>
> The WEP code question is more one of support. It is somewhat experimental
> and I haven't looked at it in so long that I can't remember what state
> it's in. Aside from the legal concerns, I'm concerned about support
> burden. Please remember that I get a _lot_ of directed e-mail that the
> list never sees and it is very time consuming. Now, I did write it, and I
> did tell someone about it....does that mean I should be slammed for not
> handing it out to every person who asks?
>
> Ok, now the AP question: The prism2 AP code that is present in wlan-ng
> was developed and released as part of research project. It depends on a
> firmware image from Intersil that is only supposed to be available under
> very specific license terms. My assumption at this point is that the
> people who obtained the image that was posted here are not licensed users.
> I know the firmware developers personally. I know how hard they work on
> this stuff. Additionally, Intersil has been very helpful to us. This
> whole situation puts our relationship at risk. As such, I made the
> decision to halt all public support for AP operation. If you have a
> problem with this, then _you_ spend 5 years building the relationships and
> experience necessary to do this stuff just to have someone put it all at
> risk with one e-mail. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but this abuse of
> Intersil's property rights really upsets me.
>
> Now, down to the bottom line. :-) I'm a Linux coder and enthusiast.
> Given my wants and desires, I'd work on the OS code and support OS users
> all day every day. Unfortunately, that doesn't get the bills paid.
> Therein lies the problem: My tendency is to be tempted/lured/distracted
> away from the work that pays the bills by the OS code and support.
> Truly, I LIKE you people and enjoy contributing everything I can. Given a
> choice between sitting in a meeting hammering out a contract with a
> collection of marketroids and doing OS work, the OS work will win out
> every time. Unfortunately, the OS work doesn't pay well. This is why I
> disappear from time to time. To maintain my concentration on the other
> work, I have to completely put the OS stuff aside.
>
> Ok, that's (more than?) enough for now. I'm going to get back to work on
> the code.
>
> Best Regards,
> -Mark
>
> PS: Sorry about the missing documentation. It has even a lower priority
> than the OS code and support.
>
>
>
>
> > Brian - If someone COULD tell you unequivocally ... would you really release
> > the code?
> > If so ... I will get the Lawyers on it ASAP! (At MY cost!)
> >
> > The truth is that this driver and the people associated with it are NOT
> > promoting the use of the prism2 device
> > within a Linux environment in a Open source manner (like their web site
> > claims).
> >
> > http://www.linux-wlan.com/linux-wlan/index.html
> >
> > They are in Business and the only thing they are promoting is their
> > profit($).
> > It is not a secret that they would prefer you to buy($) their product.
> >
> > http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/dev/linux-wlan/2001-q1/0087.html
> >
> > You can of course hunt and peck your way through the cryptic (UN-DOCUMENTED)
> > releases of the driver, but
> > do not expect even the slightest of (non-commercial) support. If you are a
> > novice .... good luck!
> >
> > http://www.lifix.fi/extarchive/lwlan/2000-12/msg00029.html
> > http://www.lifix.fi/extarchive/lwlan/2000-09/msg00042.html
> > http://www.lifix.fi/extarchive/lwlan/2000-09/msg00050.html
> >
> > I am not criticizing ... I am just pointing out FACTS. (I too am a
> > capitalist!)
> >
> > Yes, the gentlemen at absoval.com have provided us with at least this much!
> > and they don't owe the Linux community ANYTHING! I guess the Linux community
> > (including myself) have just come to expect more from an open source
> > project. Selectively releasing source (in my opinion) is NOT open source.
> > The removing of the download utility from the distribution is a perfect
> > example. What did it really do to them ... it is not like they were
> > supporting it!
> >
> > I guess time will tell whether absoval.com will make any more excesses as to
> > why they don't (can't) support Ad-Hoc, AP, WEP, etc. Is it really a fear of
> > being sued ... or is it that they don't want to risk the edge they have in
> > this industry?
> >
> > I would bet that their $20,000.00 product has FULL documentation, more
> > advanced features, oh and lets not forget ... support.
> >
> > Let me also remind you of another company who had enjoyed great revenue
> > returns ... until Panasonic released the VHS format!
> > (Free of Charge ... and with ALL the nuts and bolts!) How many BETA units
> > are still in use?
> >
> > Scott Franzyshen (Saving my pennies until I have $20,000.00)
> > http://www.getwireless.net/
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-linux-wlan-develnightsky.com
> > [mailto:owner-linux-wlan-develnightsky.com]On Behalf Of Brian Mathews
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:42 AM
> > To: linux-wlan-develabsoval.com
> > Subject: RE: [lwlan-devel]: WEP in linux-wlan (not ng)
> >
> >
> > Sorry about no response. Unfortunately, we're still
> > paranoid about releasing that code. I'm not a lawyer
> > and until someone can tell me unequivocally that we
> > won't get in trouble, I don't think it is worth the
> > risk.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > --- Scott Franzyshen <sfranzyshenlazerlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > > Hmmmm ... no responce
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-linux-wlan-develnightsky.com
> > > [mailto:owner-linux-wlan-develnightsky.com]On
> > > Behalf Of Ivo Simicevic
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:44 PM
> > > To: linux-wlan-develabsoval.com
> > > Subject: [lwlan-devel]: WEP in linux-wlan (not ng)
> > >
> > >
> > > I guess this is a question for Mark.
> > >
> > > As RSA algorithm is no longer protected by patent
> > > has anything
> > > changed regarding this statement?
> > >
> > > " I have an implementation of WEP, but I cannot
> > > distribute it
> > > because of concerns about being sued. "
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Ivo.
> > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > Linux WLAN Developer's List
> > > For more information about this list see:
> > > http://www.absoval.com/linux-wlan/lists.html
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > Linux WLAN Developer's List
> > > For more information about this list see:
> > > http://www.absoval.com/linux-wlan/lists.html
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Brian D. Mathews Phone(direct) (321)259-0737
> > AbsoluteValue Systems Fax (321)259-0286
> > PO Box 410670 Alt. No. (321)795-8558
> > Melbourne, FL Email brianlinux-wlan.com
> > 32941-0670 Web http://www.linux-wlan.com
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > Linux WLAN Developer's List
> > For more information about this list see:
> > http://www.absoval.com/linux-wlan/lists.html
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > Linux WLAN Developer's List
> > For more information about this list see:
> > http://www.absoval.com/linux-wlan/lists.html
> >
>
> --
>
> Mark S. Mathews
>
> AbsoluteValue Systems Web: http://www.linux-wlan.com
> P.O. Box 410670 e-mail: marklinux-wlan.com
> Melbourne, FL 32941-0670 Phone: 321.259.0737
> USA Fax: 321.259.0286
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Linux WLAN Developer's List
> For more information about this list see:
> http://www.absoval.com/linux-wlan/lists.html
>

-- 
Terry Griffin <griffintpobox.com>
http://www.blindchicken.com/~terryg/
--------------------------------------------------
Linux WLAN Developer's List
For more information about this list see:
http://www.absoval.com/linux-wlan/lists.html

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