> So you think the 20 people changing the applet are stupid or, even
> worse, malicious and they _want_ to make an non interoperable version?

He never used the word stupid. But I do know of people who would take the
applet source, get an idea how it works and write a new one that locks out
people and/or companies. I have seen companies get away with doing some
very sneaky and shadey things much like this.

> Can you give me just _one_ example of a free software project that
> splited into two non interoperable versions without a good reason?

Besides the articles that are posted on Slashdot about these on going
battles, I don't think anyone would fess up to something like this since
it -could- mean a legal suit. Personally, this is a rhetorical question.

> So according to the Open Source Definition [1] your applet is not Open
> Source. The _first_ criterium is "1. Free Redistribution". I don't know
> how you can say "The applet is free and will be free" in your first
> sentence. You mean free as in free bear?

Free does not always describe, or even prescribe, Open Source. Don't get
the prescription and description of free mixed up with the word `Open
Source'. The applet is free as in `not costing or charging anything' -
Merriam-Webster Dictionary [10].

As for redistribution, you could put the tar on another site and that would
be `redistribution'. A lot of this is how someone interprets the license.
Many people are bickering over this every day.

Is it just me or did anyone notice one, and maybe more, LINCENSE files being
blank?
(mvcardedge-0.9.5/applet/LICENSE)

> Maybe you can, at least, try to distribute it under an Open Source
> licence and see what happens. I completely understand your fears but I
> do not suppose, as you do, that the other developpers are completely
> stupid.

Where did `stupid' come from? I never saw this word until your email. I'm
starting to wonder if you are assuming or inferring.

> A not so bad resume is:
> GPL gives freedom to the users
> BSD gives freedom to the developers.

I agree. Besides, all the details are at opensource.org/licenses/

> > GPL requires any software using a GPL'd software be also open source.
>
> That's not exact. Maybe you should re-read the GPL more carrefully. The
> restriction is not on "using" but on "linked with".

Any changes made to the GPL'ed code have to made open, anything making use
of library but staying seperate from the GPL'ed code can be whatever
license. This is one way companies get around the license. Stallman made a
few open statements about this some time back and encouraged companies to
make use of these products, but not to abuse them. Someone correct me if I
am wrong, please.

> Putting your applet under BSD will not limit its use for non free
> projects. Even if the applet were under GPL it could be used in non free
> projects.

I completely agree. The type of license is a finer detail at the moment.
Understanding what each license is about and how flexable they are over
proprietary methods would be the first priority (strickly me, everone else
is different).

> > I know these emails will stir up a huge debate, but I guess that's the
> > point of public forums like this : )

I would hope they focus more on masses to meet, discus and educate.

> My fear is that I will not be able to use and distribute the applet. So
> I have two choices:
> 1. do not use the musclecard architecture but use PKCS or another
> architecture
> or
> 2. reimplement the applet using an free software licence and, of course,
> my new applet will respect the musclecard interface to be compatible
> with other musclecard plateforms.
>
> So in both cases you lose, I will _not_ use _your_ applet. Your dream of
> everyone using the same applet is over :-(
>
> Even worse, I may not succed in reimplementing a completely valid applet
> so my applet will not be exactly compatible with yours. So by limiting
> my freedom you force me to do what you wanted to avoid. Strange
> conclusion isn't it?

No one is forcing someone to do anything at this point. Personally I would
give this a little time. There are a lot of people looking at the applet
(from what I know, I could be wrong) and keeping it locked down a little
while to think about the how's and why's might a good thing right now. More
so, considering how many people and companies are more concerned about
security these days. Maybe we can get a few more words from Dave? ;)

> Dave, I want to help you deploy your architecture and make it a
> standard. But you need to help me in doing so.

Ditto on that.

-D

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