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Re: [ISN] What's a Little Hacking Between Friends?
From: cult hero (jerichodimensional.com)
Date: Tue Jun 01 1999 - 08:58:12 CDT
Reply From: Don Tobin <dontkraken.csds.uidaho.edu>
While I agree with some of your issue, the annual report ot the
stockholders has absolutely nothing to do with a "hacker loss". The
annual report summarizes the year, and you do not report on individual
losses at the stockholder's meeting. You report onthe sum for the year
Therefore, it is very likely the companies did not lie in their
interpretation of what is allowed by law, or mine. Anything expended in
the detection, tracking, and recovery is allowed to be deducted as an
expense, and it likely is if you dig through the several thousand pages of
expense sheets accompanying an annual report.
All this info is pretty basic if you have been an officer in a company,
been a stockholder and actually attended an annual meeting (I have, most
don't bother), or have taken any low level accounting or finance courses
I am not belittling you here, and I actually agree with you about the
quantification of these anomalous events companies claim. Commercial
comapnies lie, governemnt orgs lie, and security vendors lie, all for
their own reasons (I am working on publishing a paper with some of this
stuff in it.) However, Mitnick IS a criminal, has historically pled
guilty to about 30 various charges including credit card fraud in the past
9 years, and is overall not someone who is to be trusted. Given the state
of computer forensics and evidentiary trail problems in the court system
when dealing with computer science, especially a few years ago when
Mitnick did hismost recent stuff, people simply don't get convicted in
jury trials very much. Almost all defendants would and have gotten off.
However, most plead out before trial. I don't believe Mitnick has ever
faced a jury trial... he always pleads. I willneed to checkmy file on him
that is many years old, but I can't recall any off-hand. Even he knows he
is guilty,and has successfully used an "addiction defense" when he was in
Las Vegas. It worked and he was put into a half-way house there...
On Mon, 31 May 1999, cult hero wrote:
> Reply From: <anon>
> Humor me this one point with respect to the companies claiming losses
> against Mitnick. Each claim millions of dollars in loss, yet none of them
> posted said losses to their stockholders in those given years.
> Why has this been consistently overlooked? It would seem to me that a
> company could not claim a loss without reporting it to their stockholders.
> And if they didn't report it to their stockholders, then shouldn't the
> Federal Trade Commission look into it? And if it is determined that they
> rightly did not report a loss, then wouldn't that mean there was in fact
> no loss and that their sworn testimony to the courts were in fact perjury?
> Something's not right in Denmark.
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