On Tuesday, September 4, "D. J. Bernstein" wrote:
> Dan Weeks writes:
> > I don't like /package.
>
> Why not? What's wrong with it?

It does not fit with our current way to working with our
systems. The OpenBSD ports system is not 100% correct
either, but most of the time closer.

> > The main issue here is that the way you do things is not the way that
> > OpenBSD has chosen to do things by default.
>
> Please give a coherent explanation of that choice. Why am I allowed to
> create /usr/local/share/blahblahblah but not /package/admin/daemontools?

Why? If you give me a coherent answer to why I should waste my time
drafting up a reason for hier(7), I'll gladly do so.

> > The OpenBSD team has made it's decision on the side of safety
>
> Huh? /package is much safer than /usr/local, because the /package
> namespace is globally allocated.

Safe from what? Certainly not from having your hands mess with the
location of things. Qualify your statements.

> > Any software that I compile and forces me to use a location not of my
> > choosing, be that /package or /usr/local or /chimpnet, is wrong.
>
> Let me know when you've managed to move /bin/sh.

Sure, no problem. I can get you a boot floppy (of a functional system)
which does not contain /bin/sh. It has been moved to /dev/null. Simple
really. Of course, in some sense it is now not "unix" anymore. Various
standards define /bin/sh and its location. Without it, this floppy is
not "compliant". But hey, I've managed to move it. And yes, a functional
system means that the system does do something usefull.

> A huge number of people are generating the types of complaints shown in
> http://cr.yp.to/slashpackage/studies.html.

Please show me these people. Give me e-mail addresses. Give me a number.
Huge is a little like the number small. What is small? Well, to some 1
is small. I thought you'd be more precise with numbers by now...

> It doesn't matter whether you call these people ``users'' or ``techs''
> or ``administrators.'' What matters is solving the problem.

What matters is empowering the ``users'', ``techs'' and ``admins'' to be
*ABLE* to solve the problem. Not to dictate a means to the solution.

As a teacher, did you tell your students that the solution *MUST* look
like X? There are many solutions to this problem. Yours is one of them.
As such, /package has some problems of it's own. The conflict with the
OpenBSD hier(7) is one of them.

Now please, if you wish to discuss this off-list, I'll try to accomodate
you. However, this thread getting quite rediculous to be on the "ports"
list.

--Toby.

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