php-general Digest 5 Aug 2002 05:34:06 -0000 Issue 1506

Topics (messages 111075 through 111144):

Re: Protect PHP coding
        111075 by: Manuel Lemos
        111076 by: Maxim Maletsky
        111077 by: Manuel Lemos
        111078 by: Manuel Lemos
        111079 by: Manuel Lemos
        111080 by: Manuel Lemos
        111081 by: Maxim Maletsky
        111085 by: Manuel Lemos
        111086 by: Maxim Maletsky
        111087 by: Lee
        111088 by: Manuel Lemos
        111093 by: Maxim Maletsky
        111098 by: Manuel Lemos
        111100 by: Maxim Maletsky
        111101 by: Chris Shiflett
        111102 by: Manuel Lemos
        111103 by: Manuel Lemos
        111104 by: Maxim Maletsky
        111105 by: Manuel Lemos
        111106 by: Jim Jagielski
        111107 by: Zeev Suraski
        111108 by: Maxim Maletsky
        111110 by: Dennis Moore
        111112 by: Manuel Lemos
        111113 by: Nicholas Mercier
        111115 by: Manuel Lemos
        111116 by: Manuel Lemos
        111118 by: Maxim Maletsky
        111123 by: Manuel Lemos
        111124 by: Mark Charette
        111125 by: Manuel Lemos
        111127 by: Mark Charette
        111130 by: Manuel Lemos

Re: RegEx (back referencing)
        111082 by: Analysis & Solutions

defining separate form element within While statment
        111083 by: Jim Long

Re: Vote to ban Acer
        111084 by: Manuel Lemos

MySQL performance question
        111089 by: Lars Olsson
        111095 by: Maxim Maletsky

Re: encoders
        111090 by: Manuel Lemos

What's wrong with this regex?
        111091 by: Nicklas af Ekenstam
        111092 by: Jason Wong

Hi i need help...
        111094 by: Beogradjanin
        111096 by: Maxim Maletsky
        111126 by: Bob Lockie

Re: User Authentication Problem
        111097 by: Tony Harrison

Re: PHP and ORACLE
        111099 by: Lee

Referencement
        111109 by: Rija
        111111 by: Maxim Maletsky
        111114 by: Rija
        111120 by: Maxim Maletsky

detecting links in strings
        111117 by: Nick Allan
        111119 by: Martin Towell

Re: Problems with HTML forms and PHP. Please Help !!
        111121 by: Mr. Nobody aka Rick Hays
        111122 by: Martin Towell
        111136 by: Jason Wong

posting text that contains a '
        111128 by: Police Trainee
        111129 by: Justin French

Passing varibles
        111131 by: Jim Long
        111139 by: Martin Towell
        111142 by: hugh danaher
        111143 by: David Freeman

password retrevial code needed?
        111132 by: Deadsam
        111133 by: Jason Wong
        111134 by: Justin French
        111135 by: Justin French
        111138 by: Jason Wong

Form variable to PHP script problems
        111137 by: Renato B. Miranda
        111140 by: Justin French

Re: Php manual
        111141 by: Lord Loh.
        111144 by: Ian Ball

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/03/2002 03:05 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> Because it is a silly thread and I shouldn't be replying at all. Others
> in the group either have more sense or have given up on answering
> php-general questions.

I believe the point is that you always be passive when it comes to
initiatives that interfere with Zend business.

Where were you when Zeev publically boycotted the offer of APC author to
integrate his cache extension in PHP? If you can't speak on this, we
will know that you are still passively favouring Zend business.

> My view on encoders is that they are unnecessary and rather evil. I would
> never ever purchase a php-based application that did not come with the php

That is your oppinion of course.

> source code. If you want to restrict your code somehow, do it through a
> license. People who choose to violate that license are the same people

This is a joke right? Are you familiar with Richard Stallman? You
certainly sound like him?

The fact is that when you give the source of a product of your work, not
only you are giving the code, but also the know-how that was envolved in
the development of that code. Licensing code providing the source means
that you are giving the know-how too.

Anybody with that source can rebuild a new product with the know how
that was learned and you hardly can demonstrate that the licensee only
got the know-how because they got the source. So, licensing and giving
the source is a ridiculously innefficient solution to protect the
product of your work.

That is why Zend closed the source of the commercial products that thay
sell and you do not seem to have a problem with them today. So why do
you object to people intention to protect their PHP scripts source and
don't object to have Zend selling closed source products based on PHP?

It seems your objections are inconsistent because you are passively
admiting that Zend can make money from closed source products but other
people can't.

> who will hack your encoded scripts anyway. And this way the honest
> customers will have the benefit of the code to customize, learn from,

In the real world, many customers are not that honest and obviously can
cause a great harm to software business that is based on selling
products with Open Source.

> build on top of. Closed source stuff stifles innovation and I personally
> refuse to work on a PHP encoder for this reason. Imagine if I had never
> released the source for PHP? We would not be having this discussion
> today.

That was your decision. It is not fair to impose it to others.

The most popular language in the world is Visual Basic. The reason for
that is that it made possible for many individuals to develop
applications and sell them so they could make a living from that
activity. Despite of that, Visual Basic is itself a closed source product.

The important point of this is products are successful when they help
people to survive from them. Being open or closed source has little to
do with the success of software. Opening the source of a programming is
a compromise. It may lead to the success of a program or not. See how
many Open Source projects are rotten in Sourceforge to realize that it
is not making products Open Source that will lead to their automatic
success.

> I know plenty of people disagree with this view, but there you have it.

OTOH there are plenty of people that completely agree. You would have
much more to gain to understand both sides instead of pushing for one
side only.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

Acer,

In case you didn't know:

Zeev Suraski and Andi Gutmans made PHP4 out of PHP3 (correct the details if you wish). Then, they founded Zend (ZEev aNDi) and run it successfully.

Two guys always religiously contribute to PHP. Their role in PHP project is of an IMMENSE (no, words are not enough to describe it) value, and they do it for free.

So, as you can see, with or without Zend, PHP would exist. But, I am pretty sure that, without Zend, PHP4 would never make it to the level it is on right now.

Zend is, indeed, a company that keeps the commercial balance to the PHP Open Source project.

Lots of times, companies ask for customer support and additional libraries/extensions to the PHP programming language. Who was supposed to do that? The 600 developers for free? No, we left Zend doing it, and in exchange, Zend is powering every world's PHP installation up. See, Acer, it works!

If, Acer, you really need a PHP job, tell your headhunter that Zend exists, so that ignorant headhunter will trust PHP better.

Do you have any idea of the billions of dollars that were made with PHP around the world? I myself run a national-level project for the Italian Government. We’ve got dozens of PHP people involved for 2 years which is the duration of the project. You cannot even feel the immensity of PHP. And, ironically, PHP Dev Group still asks for free FTP mirrors.

Now, please, poor soul Acer, make us all happy - stop offending this mailing list.

Unfortunately, your messages pop-up on our eyes while reading this mailing list hopping to help someone in trouble. Your senseless typing only makes us hate you.

Ciao,

Maxim Maletsky maximphp.net

> -----Original Message----- > From: Acer [mailto:internetraceryifan.net] > Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 5:13 PM > To: Zeev Suraski > Cc: Justin French; php > Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > > Okay like I said before, Zeev is agreeing with me that php is zend and > zend > is php. However, if zend dropped off the face of the planet, there would > be > programmers to fill that void. > > Again call me a cynic but zend develops php but if you pay them several > thousand then it will run 4 times faster. Wow that's great. So let's not > put that much effort into php and make it run faster if you pay. No > conflict of interest there. > > Wow 3 million sites, that's a lot. How many of those actually get more > then > 1000 visitors? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Zeev Suraski [mailto:zeevzend.com] > Sent: August 4, 2002 10:55 AM > To: Acer > Cc: Justin French; php > Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > > > Just a couple of facts: > > 1. If Zend did not exist, PHP 4 wouldn't have existed, at least not in > any > way similar to what PHP 4 looks like today. FYI, with PHP 3, it was > impossible to write accelerators, encoders, debuggers and whatnot. > > 2. Zend published its value-add software *2 years* ago, when it was > really > innovative. The fact some of its key products were since copied by the > freeware community doesn't mean that they would have existed in the first > place. > > An opinion: > > Like others pointed out, your assertion that in order to use PHP in a > production environment you HAVE to have an encoder or an accelerator is > ridiculous. If I gave you a set of patches that doubles the speed of PHP, > but offer a commercial product that quadruples it, you'd still be pissed > and say that you HAVE to pay in order to use PHP in a production > environment, wouldn't you? > > And finally, another fact: > > There are 3 million PHP based web sites in the world. Only a fragment of > them use accelerators or encoders, and you know something? They're doing > pretty darn well. > > Zeev > > At 16:45 04/08/2002, Acer wrote: > >Okay let me clarify, I think that if Zend did not exist then php would be > in > >a better position. Why? Because something like php-encoder would of > filled > >the void sooner and everyone would of benefited from encoders and > >accelerators. > > > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/03/2002 10:44 PM, Justin French wrote: >>>The people for Zend have to eat to live. >> >>And don't we all? That is the main problem. If we need to pay USD $3,000 >>to be able to compile our PHP programs, doesn't that make not viable for >>most of us to sell our PHP programs as closed source? > > > How much money do you make a week writing PHP scripts? Just remember, Zend > gave you PHP, for free, to use in almost any commercial way you wish.

I don't live from writing PHP scripts, that is the problem. I give away many PHP scripts often in the form of ready to use PHP Classes, but besides from that I have plenty of sophisticated code that I am not interested to give away in Open Source because I would be disclosing the know-how that is embedded in it. That is regardless whether I wanted to give or sell the code.

I also know many people that would like to protect their PHP code so their ISPs could not peek on it.

> My clients cant afford Zend, but when the right client comes along, it'll be > my recommendation without hesitation.

That is your problem. Most people I know are like your clients, they can't afford the greedy prices of Zend.

I often recommend using APC in MMAP mode that automatically stores compiled files in disk, so you can protect their source code for free.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/03/2002 10:49 PM, Justin French wrote: >>Don't get me wrong rasmus, I don't have any problems with you. It's just >>fishy when some guy in the UK was able to put together a php accelerator for >>free and a php encoder for $0.50 a pop while zend is charging several >>thousands. You have to wonder how much work zend is actually putting into >>their products to justify the price. Plus, these guys are the ones building >>php so something is not right. > > > Zend is a commercial company, and has a right to charge for a product. My > guess is that the developers of the Zend engine (PHP) would also make the > best developers of any other product (like an accelerator or encoder) that > is associated with PHP.

You're guess is biased. Do you know that Yahho have choosen Nick Lindrige PHP Accelerator cache extension instead of Zend's?

> If someone is charging so little for the product (it is Beta, so I wouldn't > use it anyway), then there is a good *chance* that it's a far less superior > product.

Excuse me but that is an ignorant criteria. Basically you are saying that quality is proportional to the price. In that case you deserved to be exploited by Zend or whoever charges more from you.

> Let me ask you Acer, how much money do you make a week from developing PHP > web applications with the free PHP scripting language? The $2000 doesn't > seem like much in comparison, does it.

I think you need to open your horizon and understand that not everybody lives in the same country as you and does not necessarily have the same kind of opportunities to make money.

Anyway, I think it is stupid to pay for a PHP compiler when you do not have to pay for compilers in other languages. That is one more reason for some people to drop PHP. That is not my case, I prefer to stick to PHP and contribute for free PHP compilers be made available and everybody knows about them.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

On 08/04/2002 04:08 AM, Justin French wrote: > on 04/08/02 3:55 PM, Acer (internetraceryifan.net) wrote: > > >>so fine zend is ripping people off, what's the point? well it has been >>damaging to php is my point. no one knows what php is and no one will pay >>you to do php. why blame zend on this? no matter what rasmus says that 600 >>people have access to the cvs, php is zend and zend is php. > > > I don't believe Zend's charging for commerical extensions to the product has > harmed it in any way. I also don't believe that Zend is ripping people off.

Except that Zeev blocked APC people from contributing with their open source cache extension to PHP. Therefore, Zend business practices are harmful PHP development.

> You have no way of telling if any competitive product does as good a job, > and furthermore, since the *one product you found* is in beta, then the > argument is totally shallow.

It depends. Yahoo was certainly able to decide that Nick's PHP Accelerator was a better solution than Zend Cache. Why can't Nick's PHP Encoder be better than Zend Encoder?

> PHP has made a massive indentation into the server-side scripting world in > just a few years, and I get emailed about jobs and contracts ALL THE TIME > that want me to use it.

You are missing the point. One thing is living from the applications you develop in PHP, another thing is living from developing in PHP for other people. Some people have better vocation to do the first and would prefer to do it for all their lives, but to market your applications you need to be able to protect your code from pirates and competitors or else you would have no business.

> Furthermore, perhaps the reason why you can't get anyone to pay you is (no > insult intended): > > - your poor communication skills > - your lack of any real programming experience > - your lack of experience in the right projects / skills > - you're not looking in the right places > - you're only looking at advertised work, not creating a job

You are missing his point and you are being rude to point deficiencies to him that may well be attributed to you.

> None of this is Zend's fault, and switching to ASP, or having Zend give away > the encoder will not fix any of this. You make me laugh.

I don't think the point is having Zend Encoder for free. The point is being able to protect PHP code for free like you can with other languages. It does not have to be with Zend products.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/04/2002 11:55 AM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > Just a couple of facts: > > 1. If Zend did not exist, PHP 4 wouldn't have existed, at least not in > any way similar to what PHP 4 looks like today. FYI, with PHP 3, it was > impossible to write accelerators, encoders, debuggers and whatnot.

You're assumption is completely wrong because if you guys would never existed or contributed to PHP, somebody else would have done it. You are definetly not the only ones in the universe that could have developed a better PHP engine.

PHP already was popular before PHP 4. Chances are that somebody else could have done the same or better then your Zend engine.

> There are 3 million PHP based web sites in the world. Only a fragment > of them use accelerators or encoders, and you know something? They're > doing pretty darn well.

There are plenty of other uses for PHP than the Web, despite you do not want to promote PHP for that.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

Manuel,

I feel like you want Zend to develop things for free like they develop Zend Engine. I think it is right for them selling Zend Encoder and IDE. Companies still trust these products more than the free packages you mentioned. Do not forget, PHP is running on Zend.

There is really a lot of money involved in developments. If, by some means, I would need to hide a source, I would look at my business model, and, if I got extra $3.000 budgeted to spend on development I will spend them for Zend Encoder instead of resorting to Open Source protecting solutions. Because, the product to protect my intellectual property would be chosen by the responsibility of its manufacture.

I think you will agree with me, Open Source is a high quality code, but its support is not. Open Source is never supported with the business-level responsibility as Zend would do.

About Zend CEO. I personally have attended a business meeting with Doron (CEO) and Zeev in Tokyo last year in June. And, I must tell you, we all had very good impression of them.

If, Manuel, what they do does not make you happy - that is only your opinion.

Just remember, that, the future e-business will not consist of software development, but of its support. And Zend primarely supports PHP.

Regards,

Maxim Maletsky maximphp.net

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/04/2002 03:35 PM, Maxim Maletsky wrote: > I feel like you want Zend to develop things for free like they develop > Zend Engine. I think it is right for them selling Zend Encoder and IDE. > Companies still trust these products more than the free packages you > mentioned. Do not forget, PHP is running on Zend.

I do not want Zend to develop things for free. I never said that.

As a matter of fact I do not want to use Zend commercial products at all, precisely because their pricing is greedy. That is my opinion and so is the opinion of many other PHP users. The problem is not being commercial, the problem is being expensive.

I have an brain and use it to make decisions that defend my interests. So it seems that Yahoo people that decided to use Nick Lindrige PHP Accelerator instead of Zend Cache.

> There is really a lot of money involved in developments. If, by some > means, I would need to hide a source, I would look at my business model, > and, if I got extra $3.000 budgeted to spend on development I will spend > them for Zend Encoder instead of resorting to Open Source protecting > solutions. Because, the product to protect my intellectual property > would be chosen by the responsibility of its manufacture.

Maxim, be serious, you do not have to pay that sort of money to compile programs in other languages, why do you keep forcing the excuse to pay that fortune to Zend?

I am sure that many of us are not idiots to pay that fortune to Zend, especially now when have free alternatives.

> I think you will agree with me, Open Source is a high quality code, but > its support is not. Open Source is never supported with the > business-level responsibility as Zend would do.

Honestly I don't want support from greedy companies like Zend. If you go and examine their pricing you see that they charge for every little thing.

The only thing that that don't charge is the Zend Optimizer. But the truth is, if you have complex scripts, if you do not use a cache engine as well, using Zend optimizer makes your scripts run slower because the optimizer itself takes a lot of time to analyse complex scripts and in the end often it does not pay using the optimizer if the results are not cached. Make your benchmarks with complex scripts and you will see what I am talking about.

So, the only thing that is "free" from Zend is something that makes you wish even more the cache product that is bloody expensive. It took me some time to realize that. Some day I realized that some users were using mirror scripts that made many requests to a site of mine and I noticed that PHP was consuming an huge ammount of CPU time. I was suggested by a open source cache extension developer that using the optiomizer without a cache makes your PHP scripts hog the CPU. I turned Zend Optimizer off and it turned out to be true. I never used Zend Optimizer again.

I use APC cache and the speedup is tremendous although it is said that Nick Lindrige PHP Accelerator is much faster matching Zend Cache performance.

> About Zend CEO. I personally have attended a business meeting with Doron > (CEO) and Zeev in Tokyo last year in June. And, I must tell you, we all > had very good impression of them.

Of course, when you pay they will treat you nicely. It seems that when you refuse to pay they become unreasonable.

> If, Manuel, what they do does not make you happy - that is only your > opinion.

Sure, mine and of many others. I also think it is stupid to exclude Acer because he has different opinions than yours.

Anyway, do you agree that Zeev is right by boycotting APC people to contribute with they cache extension? If you do, you are just defending their monopoly, and so I do not have nothing else to say to you.

> Just remember, that, the future e-business will not consist of software > development, but of its support. And Zend primarely supports PHP.

Do you work for Zend? I'm sorry but it surely looks like you do because you are trying are to make them look good.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

> so is the opinion of many other PHP users. The problem is not being > commercial, the problem is being expensive.

This is true, but I think they know it. Their main customers are ready to pay those prices, so what's the problem? They've just chosen this business model for themselves.

> I have an brain and use it to make decisions that defend my interests. > So it seems that Yahoo people that decided to use Nick Lindrige PHP > Accelerator instead of Zend Cache. > > > > There is really a lot of money involved in developments. If, by some > > means, I would need to hide a source, I would look at my business model, > > and, if I got extra $3.000 budgeted to spend on development I will spend > > them for Zend Encoder instead of resorting to Open Source protecting > > solutions. Because, the product to protect my intellectual property > > would be chosen by the responsibility of its manufacture. > > Maxim, be serious, you do not have to pay that sort of money to compile > programs in other languages, why do you keep forcing the excuse to pay > that fortune to Zend?

$3.000 is a lot of money? For middle-range site maybe, but for big projects it is not. In fact, when you get to use Java or ASP.NET you, over all, will end up paying Waaaaay more money for the whole thing.

> I am sure that many of us are not idiots to pay that fortune to Zend, > especially now when have free alternatives. >

Now, here we're close to the point. Ideally, it should have both - commercial software and open source alternatives.

Learning from Microsoft experience, lots of projects prefer commercial solutions. This way, having Zend doing it, we can compete. Otherwise, how on the earth MS with ASP would exist?

> Honestly I don't want support from greedy companies like Zend. If you go > and examine their pricing you see that they charge for every little thing. > > The only thing that that don't charge is the Zend Optimizer. But the > truth is, if you have complex scripts, if you do not use a cache engine > as well, using Zend optimizer makes your scripts run slower because the > optimizer itself takes a lot of time to analyse complex scripts and in > the end often it does not pay using the optimizer if the results are not > cached. Make your benchmarks with complex scripts and you will see what > I am talking about. > > So, the only thing that is "free" from Zend is something that makes you > wish even more the cache product that is bloody expensive. It took me > some time to realize that. Some day I realized that some users were > using mirror scripts that made many requests to a site of mine and I > noticed that PHP was consuming an huge ammount of CPU time. I was > suggested by a open source cache extension developer that using the > optiomizer without a cache makes your PHP scripts hog the CPU. I turned > Zend Optimizer off and it turned out to be true. I never used Zend > Optimizer again. > > I use APC cache and the speedup is tremendous although it is said that > Nick Lindrige PHP Accelerator is much faster matching Zend Cache > performance. >

Cannot comment on this one because I haven't had a similar experience. You might be right on this.

> Of course, when you pay they will treat you nicely. It seems that when > you refuse to pay they become unreasonable.

No, we weren't paying.

> Sure, mine and of many others. I also think it is stupid to exclude Acer > because he has different opinions than yours.

Manuel, read the whole thread well. Acer have insulted PHP community. It was not about his ideas, but rather about the way he put them like.

> Anyway, do you agree that Zeev is right by boycotting APC people to > contribute with they cache extension? If you do, you are just defending > their monopoly, and so I do not have nothing else to say to you.

Neither I know well this story. But, if the things went the ay you say then this is not very nice. Guess, soon or later it will change. However, free solutions can always become patches and be available to people. So the problem becomes only somewhat like "should we add it or should we not". Yet it is available.

> Do you work for Zend? I'm sorry but it surely looks like you do because > you are trying are to make them look good.

No, I never worked for them. When working in Tokyo's largest English IT publication we have met Zend on behalf of my ex-company. Besides that I only had PHP Beginner affiliated with Zend a year ago, but even that is over now.

All I am trying to say, that, Zend plays a big role in PHP development. I, personally, do not mind about their pricing because I am not running any projects that need their services. I, just as you would, would get the alternatives whenever cannot afford their pricings. Actually, I would not buy Encoder even if it would cost $5 because I whether do it all with Open Source or plan the budget and pay. $3.000 is a lot for a simple project, but it is doable for an ASP (Application Service Providers), so let's let Zend live - we need it.

One more though - I believe, that, even if encoder will be added to every PHP distribution, Zend will still be selling encoder because it would be able to support it as an entity. That's how a lot of businesses think.

Maxim Maletsky

attached mail follows:

As someone who subscribed to this list for technical assistance, not to get numerous posts of politics. I would like to add my piece which I hope will help to end it hear.

A lot of people have said the same thing over and over, its about CHOICE.

You are not forced to use any off the commercial offering from zend at all, but if you think they are useful then you have the option of purchasing them.

Can we try and put this into perspective:-

If you were to try and setup a similair M$ setup for personal use, what would you have to get

+ Windows 2000 server + Visual Studio + SQL Server

Now consider a similair UNIX/Linux setup

+ Linux Flavor + PHP + Zend Studio Personal + Mysql, PostgreSQL, Oracle8i, etc

I haven't included prices because it is pretty obvious which one will be more expensive. But the point I am trying to make is CHOICE again. With Microsoft you have no choice but to use there setup, with others you do.

Sorry if I have added an extra M$ vs Unix argument to this but I could eventually see this argument spanning of control onto companies such as RedHat (e.g. RedHat Advanced Server) and that is definately not right.

Thanks for you time.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Maxim Maletsky" <maximphp.net> To: <mlemosacm.org>; <php-generallists.php.net> Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 8:34 PM Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

> > so is the opinion of many other PHP users. The problem is not being > > commercial, the problem is being expensive. > > This is true, but I think they know it. Their main customers are ready > to pay those prices, so what's the problem? They've just chosen this > business model for themselves. > > > I have an brain and use it to make decisions that defend my interests. > > So it seems that Yahoo people that decided to use Nick Lindrige PHP > > Accelerator instead of Zend Cache. > > > > > > > There is really a lot of money involved in developments. If, by some > > > means, I would need to hide a source, I would look at my business > model, > > > and, if I got extra $3.000 budgeted to spend on development I will > spend > > > them for Zend Encoder instead of resorting to Open Source protecting > > > solutions. Because, the product to protect my intellectual property > > > would be chosen by the responsibility of its manufacture. > > > > Maxim, be serious, you do not have to pay that sort of money to > compile > > programs in other languages, why do you keep forcing the excuse to pay > > that fortune to Zend? > > $3.000 is a lot of money? For middle-range site maybe, but for big > projects it is not. In fact, when you get to use Java or ASP.NET you, > over all, will end up paying Waaaaay more money for the whole thing. > > > I am sure that many of us are not idiots to pay that fortune to Zend, > > especially now when have free alternatives. > > > > Now, here we're close to the point. Ideally, it should have both - > commercial software and open source alternatives. > > Learning from Microsoft experience, lots of projects prefer commercial > solutions. This way, having Zend doing it, we can compete. Otherwise, > how on the earth MS with ASP would exist? > > > Honestly I don't want support from greedy companies like Zend. If you > go > > and examine their pricing you see that they charge for every little > thing. > > > > The only thing that that don't charge is the Zend Optimizer. But the > > truth is, if you have complex scripts, if you do not use a cache > engine > > as well, using Zend optimizer makes your scripts run slower because > the > > optimizer itself takes a lot of time to analyse complex scripts and in > > the end often it does not pay using the optimizer if the results are > not > > cached. Make your benchmarks with complex scripts and you will see > what > > I am talking about. > > > > So, the only thing that is "free" from Zend is something that makes > you > > wish even more the cache product that is bloody expensive. It took me > > some time to realize that. Some day I realized that some users were > > using mirror scripts that made many requests to a site of mine and I > > noticed that PHP was consuming an huge ammount of CPU time. I was > > suggested by a open source cache extension developer that using the > > optiomizer without a cache makes your PHP scripts hog the CPU. I > turned > > Zend Optimizer off and it turned out to be true. I never used Zend > > Optimizer again. > > > > I use APC cache and the speedup is tremendous although it is said that > > Nick Lindrige PHP Accelerator is much faster matching Zend Cache > > performance. > > > > Cannot comment on this one because I haven't had a similar experience. > You might be right on this. > > > Of course, when you pay they will treat you nicely. It seems that when > > you refuse to pay they become unreasonable. > > No, we weren't paying. > > > Sure, mine and of many others. I also think it is stupid to exclude > Acer > > because he has different opinions than yours. > > Manuel, read the whole thread well. Acer have insulted PHP community. It > was not about his ideas, but rather about the way he put them like. > > > Anyway, do you agree that Zeev is right by boycotting APC people to > > contribute with they cache extension? If you do, you are just > defending > > their monopoly, and so I do not have nothing else to say to you. > > Neither I know well this story. But, if the things went the ay you say > then this is not very nice. Guess, soon or later it will change. > However, free solutions can always become patches and be available to > people. So the problem becomes only somewhat like "should we add it or > should we not". Yet it is available. > > > Do you work for Zend? I'm sorry but it surely looks like you do > because > > you are trying are to make them look good. > > No, I never worked for them. When working in Tokyo's largest English IT > publication we have met Zend on behalf of my ex-company. Besides that I > only had PHP Beginner affiliated with Zend a year ago, but even that is > over now. > > > All I am trying to say, that, Zend plays a big role in PHP development. > I, personally, do not mind about their pricing because I am not running > any projects that need their services. I, just as you would, would get > the alternatives whenever cannot afford their pricings. Actually, I > would not buy Encoder even if it would cost $5 because I whether do it > all with Open Source or plan the budget and pay. $3.000 is a lot for a > simple project, but it is doable for an ASP (Application Service > Providers), so let's let Zend live - we need it. > > One more though - I believe, that, even if encoder will be added to > every PHP distribution, Zend will still be selling encoder because it > would be able to support it as an entity. That's how a lot of businesses > think. > > Maxim Maletsky > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > >

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/04/2002 04:34 PM, Maxim Maletsky wrote: >>so is the opinion of many other PHP users. The problem is not being >>commercial, the problem is being expensive. > > > This is true, but I think they know it. Their main customers are ready > to pay those prices, so what's the problem? They've just chosen this > business model for themselves.

That is fine for me, but if their prices are high why you promoting their business against free alternatives? That is the key point of this thread and why Zend was brought into the discussion.

>>>There is really a lot of money involved in developments. If, by some >>>means, I would need to hide a source, I would look at my business >> > model, > >>>and, if I got extra $3.000 budgeted to spend on development I will >> > spend > >>>them for Zend Encoder instead of resorting to Open Source protecting >>>solutions. Because, the product to protect my intellectual property >>>would be chosen by the responsibility of its manufacture. >> >>Maxim, be serious, you do not have to pay that sort of money to > > compile > >>programs in other languages, why do you keep forcing the excuse to pay >>that fortune to Zend? > > > $3.000 is a lot of money? For middle-range site maybe, but for big > projects it is not. In fact, when you get to use Java or ASP.NET you, > over all, will end up paying Waaaaay more money for the whole thing.

I don't know (or care) about ASP.NET, but you can compile Java programs for free. There are even free Java to C compilers.

Either you don't know about these free solutions or are using that same silly argument of Microsof that the TCO of using Linux is higher than using Windows.

>>I am sure that many of us are not idiots to pay that fortune to Zend, >>especially now when have free alternatives. >> > > > Now, here we're close to the point. Ideally, it should have both - > commercial software and open source alternatives. > > Learning from Microsoft experience, lots of projects prefer commercial > solutions. This way, having Zend doing it, we can compete. Otherwise, > how on the earth MS with ASP would exist?

We? I do not identify myself or my goals with Zend's. Even PHP and Zend are completely different things.

Anyway, Zend is not doing intentionally many things that I think they should do. So, I really do not have to simpathize with their decisions.

>>Sure, mine and of many others. I also think it is stupid to exclude > > Acer > >>because he has different opinions than yours. > > > Manuel, read the whole thread well. Acer have insulted PHP community. It > was not about his ideas, but rather about the way he put them like.

That is even more stupid because basically you are killing the messenger just because he did not bring you only the good news . Many of his ideas are plain right regardless how he may have exposed them.

It seems that some people just feel that the only right thing to do is to s*ck for Zend and do not want to admit any criticisms.

>>Anyway, do you agree that Zeev is right by boycotting APC people to >>contribute with they cache extension? If you do, you are just > > defending > >>their monopoly, and so I do not have nothing else to say to you. > > > Neither I know well this story. But, if the things went the ay you say

This is public. Just dig in php-dev archives and see for yourself before Zeev comes along again throwing sand to everybody's eyes stating that I am only talking about half-truths.

> then this is not very nice. Guess, soon or later it will change.

Why do you think that will happen?

Basically all core members of the PHP group have been passively quiet.

There is a saying that states that those that remain quite are admiting it. In this case it means that the whole core PHP group that could do anything about it is just passively allowing that Zend people does not have wide spread Open Source alternatives to they comercial products, basically favouring their business. People that behave like that have no moral to contest Microsoft business practices.

> However, free solutions can always become patches and be available to > people. So the problem becomes only somewhat like "should we add it or > should we not". Yet it is available.

There are free solutions that are not widespread because they are not very well know. I have asked them before and the authors of the 3 free PHP cache extensions (APC, PHPA and BWare) are willing to contribute with their code. One of them (APC) even stepped up and offered his code in the PHP-DEV mailing list. Only Zeev opposed. The remaining PHP group core members just remained quite. Doesn't it look like they are supporting Zeev boycott?

>>Do you work for Zend? I'm sorry but it surely looks like you do > > because > >>you are trying are to make them look good. > > No, I never worked for them. When working in Tokyo's largest English IT > publication we have met Zend on behalf of my ex-company. Besides that I > only had PHP Beginner affiliated with Zend a year ago, but even that is > over now. > > All I am trying to say, that, Zend plays a big role in PHP development. > I, personally, do not mind about their pricing because I am not running > any projects that need their services. I, just as you would, would get > the alternatives whenever cannot afford their pricings. Actually, I > would not buy Encoder even if it would cost $5 because I whether do it > all with Open Source or plan the budget and pay. $3.000 is a lot for a > simple project, but it is doable for an ASP (Application Service > Providers), so let's let Zend live - we need it.

I don't have a problem with Zend business as long as they don't stand in front of PHP development. PHP needs free caching and compiling alternatives because not everybody can afford Zend prices. While that does not happen, PHP development will be stuck due to Zend business interests.

> One more though - I believe, that, even if encoder will be added to > every PHP distribution, Zend will still be selling encoder because it > would be able to support it as an entity. That's how a lot of businesses > think.

That is one more reason to not boycott the integration of the free alternatives in PHP, but it seems has the PHP groups under absolute control.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

> That is fine for me, but if their prices are high why you promoting > their business against free alternatives? That is the key point of this > thread and why Zend was brought into the discussion. >

Fine with me too - let's make this the point of this discussion.

> Anyway, Zend is not doing intentionally many things that I think they > should do. So, I really do not have to simpathize with their decisions.

So, I guess we all need to ask Zeev for the reason why can't those extensions be added to PHP distributions.

> That is even more stupid because basically you are killing the messenger > just because he did not bring you only the good news . Many of his ideas > are plain right regardless how he may have exposed them.

Maybe some ideas made sense, but many were senseless. The main reason he gained our antipathy was how he expressed himself.

> It seems that some people just feel that the only right thing to do is > to s*ck for Zend and do not want to admit any criticisms.

And you seem to be following Acer's example in the preceding line...

Zend is a company that supports PHP commercially and, we definitely have no reasons to s*ck for Zend.

> Why do you think that will happen?

Because this thread tries to make it happen right now. Evolution, Manuel.

> I don't have a problem with Zend business as long as they don't stand in > front of PHP development. PHP needs free caching and compiling > alternatives because not everybody can afford Zend prices. While that > does not happen, PHP development will be stuck due to Zend business > interests.

Again. We should be asking Zeev why he objected the introduction of compiler and cache extensions to PHP distributions.

> That is one more reason to not boycott the integration of the free > alternatives in PHP, but it seems has the PHP groups under absolute > control.

Well, some organization rules are there, though, I do not think things are THAT corrupted in PHP Development Group. PHP is still Open Source, remember?

Manuel, as my conclusion I will say - Zend is not PHP's god-father, it is a related company, a project's partner. They make their living and it is quite irrelevant to PHP Development.

If there are packages that are not introduced to PHP only because of the partnership then let's follow this question on PHP-DEV list.

Regards, Maxim Maletsky

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/04/2002 06:06 PM, Maxim Maletsky wrote: >>Anyway, Zend is not doing intentionally many things that I think they >>should do. So, I really do not have to simpathize with their > > decisions. > > So, I guess we all need to ask Zeev for the reason why can't those > extensions be added to PHP distributions.

Usually lame excuses. You'd better read the original threads in PHP-DEV and judge by yourself.

>>That is even more stupid because basically you are killing the > > messenger > >>just because he did not bring you only the good news . Many of his > > ideas > >>are plain right regardless how he may have exposed them. > > > Maybe some ideas made sense, but many were senseless. The main reason he > gained our antipathy was how he expressed himself.

He was not trying to be nice with anybody. He was justifying his statements with very good and valid points that you were trying to void with the excuse that you did not like his tone. It seems like you want to avoid the subjects.

>>It seems that some people just feel that the only right thing to do is >>to s*ck for Zend and do not want to admit any criticisms. > > > And you seem to be following Acer's example in the preceding line...

Maybe I am. In that case don't you wonder why could more than one person be bringing attention to the same points as faults in PHP development? Don't you ever consider that the points could actually very valid but you are avoiding them with unrelated motives?

> Zend is a company that supports PHP commercially and, we definitely have > no reasons to s*ck for Zend.

When somebody insistently defends Zend posture and business, don't you think it is reasonable for us to think that you may have your reasons to s*ck for Zend? It could be the wrong impression but that is the one that you are passing.

>>Why do you think that will happen? > > > Because this thread tries to make it happen right now. Evolution, > Manuel.

I don't seen any evolution. People that are keys to the issues like Rasmus are ducking as if they have nothing to do with PHP evolution!

>>I don't have a problem with Zend business as long as they don't stand > > in > >>front of PHP development. PHP needs free caching and compiling >>alternatives because not everybody can afford Zend prices. While that >>does not happen, PHP development will be stuck due to Zend business >>interests. > > > Again. We should be asking Zeev why he objected the introduction of > compiler and cache extensions to PHP distributions.

You may try, but he always avoid the subject because admiting Open Source alternatives to their commercial products to be shipped in PHP is bad for their business. That is natural. What is odd is that other core PHP Group developers are passively admiting it. It sure looks like they agree with favouring Zend products by not permitting that free alternatives get any exposure.

>>That is one more reason to not boycott the integration of the free >>alternatives in PHP, but it seems has the PHP groups under absolute >>control. > > > Well, some organization rules are there, though, I do not think things > are THAT corrupted in PHP Development Group. PHP is still Open Source, > remember?

Gee... if only I could tell all that I know about Zend and corruption... too bad I can't, at least not in public forum...

> Manuel, as my conclusion I will say - Zend is not PHP's god-father, it > is a related company, a project's partner. They make their living and it > is quite irrelevant to PHP Development. > > If there are packages that are not introduced to PHP only because of the > partnership then let's follow this question on PHP-DEV list.

Uh-oh, I guess you are not aware that Zeev bans people from PHP-DEV when they start bringing inconvinient threads that do not interest their business.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

> Usually lame excuses. You'd better read the original threads in PHP-DEV > and judge by yourself.

Why do I need excuses?

> He was not trying to be nice with anybody. He was justifying his > statements with very good and valid points that you were trying to void > with the excuse that you did not like his tone. It seems like you want > to avoid the subjects.

Me personally? Glad to disappoint you - I am still discussing it, not avoiding :-) Silly...

> I don't seen any evolution. People that are keys to the issues like > Rasmus are ducking as if they have nothing to do with PHP evolution!

Manuel, what are you accusing the developers for?

> You may try, but he always avoid the subject because admiting Open > Source alternatives to their commercial products to be shipped in PHP is > bad for their business. That is natural. What is odd is that other core > PHP Group developers are passively admiting it. It sure looks like they > agree with favouring Zend products by not permitting that free > alternatives get any exposure.

I wonder who else thinks so besides you and Acer. Raise your hands.

> Gee... if only I could tell all that I know about Zend and corruption... > too bad I can't, at least not in public forum...

Then tell it, isn't it what you are doing here right now?

> Uh-oh, I guess you are not aware that Zeev bans people from PHP-DEV when > they start bringing inconvinient threads that do not interest their > business.

Zeev, is it so?

Manuel, I think you are accusing here too much. I do understand your points about adding these extensions, and, I personally agree with you on this. But, one thing you should (MUST) remember is that, you use FREE CODE people you blame created for you. Please more respect, Manuel Lemos.

Maxim Maletsky

attached mail follows:

Maxim Maletsky wrote:

>>Uh-oh, I guess you are not aware that Zeev bans people from PHP-DEV when >> >> >>they start bringing inconvinient threads that do not interest their business. >> >> > >Zeev, is it so? >

I do seem to recall Manuel finally being banned from PHP-DEV, but I don't think it's a safe assumption to be picking names of who "pulled the switch". Regardless, it was more than justified, because he was filling up the list with the same useless drivel that this thread consists of. While it may be tolerable on this list (apparently), it hinders productivity to allow such spam to fill up PHP-DEV.

Personally, I'm glad that such time wasters are banned from PHP-DEV, and it actually irritates me to see people such as Rasmus feel the need to defend PHP, themselves, or anything else on this list. They have much better things to do, and people should be more mature and respectful.

I think this entire thread should be "banned" so to speak. :-)

Chris

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/04/2002 07:05 PM, Maxim Maletsky wrote: >>Usually lame excuses. You'd better read the original threads in > > PHP-DEV > >>and judge by yourself. > > > Why do I need excuses?

Not you, I meant Zeev presents lame excuses to avoid the subject of accepting an Open Source cache extension in PHP. At that time, other PHP Group core developers remain conviniently quiet.

>>He was not trying to be nice with anybody. He was justifying his >>statements with very good and valid points that you were trying to > > void > >>with the excuse that you did not like his tone. It seems like you want >>to avoid the subjects. > > > Me personally? Glad to disappoint you - I am still discussing it, not > avoiding :-) Silly...

What I meant is that when you claim the tone of the discussions is not pleaseant according to yourself it is as if the points being presented become void.

>>I don't seen any evolution. People that are keys to the issues like >>Rasmus are ducking as if they have nothing to do with PHP evolution! > > > Manuel, what are you accusing the developers for?

Being passive and letting Zeev boycott the contribution of an Open Source cache extension to avoid the harm cause by his business.

>>You may try, but he always avoid the subject because admiting Open >>Source alternatives to their commercial products to be shipped in PHP > > is > >>bad for their business. That is natural. What is odd is that other > > core > >>PHP Group developers are passively admiting it. It sure looks like > > they > >>agree with favouring Zend products by not permitting that free >>alternatives get any exposure. > > > I wonder who else thinks so besides you and Acer. Raise your hands.

At this point of the thread you will hardly see anybody raising hands because all those that have spoken have been slammed.

>>Gee... if only I could tell all that I know about Zend and > > corruption... > >> too bad I can't, at least not in public forum... > > > Then tell it, isn't it what you are doing here right now?

No, this is more serious subject that I can't talk about first because it does not envolve me and I did not learn the information from first hand and second because I was trusted in secret to not tell what I was told. I wish I could because what I was told would reveal the real Zeev Suraski that you do not seem to know. Sorry, that's all I can say. Please don't insist.

>>Uh-oh, I guess you are not aware that Zeev bans people from PHP-DEV > > when > >>they start bringing inconvinient threads that do not interest their >>business. > > > Zeev, is it so?

Oh, you don't know? Some time ago, after I made an invitation to any developers interested to cooperate in the development of an Open Source compiler/cache extension for PHP, Zeev Suraski silently banned my address from the PHP-DEV mailing list.

When I noticed I complained in PHP-PEAR-DEV because we were discussion the merger of Metabase (that you know I developed) with PEAR-DB. Immediately Stig Bakken apologised in the name of the PHP Group for the ban. Only them Zeev came up and tried to justify his abuse of power that he did by banning one individual without even telling the other PHP developers.

This is why I regret that some of you still s*ck for Zeev Suraski as you obviously do not know how far this "ditactor" can go.

> Manuel, I think you are accusing here too much. I do understand your > points about adding these extensions, and, I personally agree with you > on this. But, one thing you should (MUST) remember is that, you use FREE > CODE people you blame created for you. Please more respect, Manuel > Lemos.

I may disagree with many PHP developers and respect most, but for obvious reasons I do not respect power abusing individuals like Zeev Suraski and I am sorry for all those that naively sing his dictator song.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/04/2002 07:05 PM, Maxim Maletsky wrote: >>Usually lame excuses. You'd better read the original threads in > > PHP-DEV > >>and judge by yourself. > > > Why do I need excuses?

Not you, I meant Zeev presents lame excuses to avoid the subject of accepting an Open Source cache extension in PHP. At that time, other PHP Group core developers remain conviniently quiet.

>>He was not trying to be nice with anybody. He was justifying his >>statements with very good and valid points that you were trying to > > void > >>with the excuse that you did not like his tone. It seems like you want >>to avoid the subjects. > > > Me personally? Glad to disappoint you - I am still discussing it, not > avoiding :-) Silly...

What I meant is that when you claim the tone of the discussions is not pleaseant according to yourself it is as if the points being presented become void.

>>I don't seen any evolution. People that are keys to the issues like >>Rasmus are ducking as if they have nothing to do with PHP evolution! > > > Manuel, what are you accusing the developers for?

Being passive and letting Zeev boycott the contribution of an Open Source cache extension to avoid the harm cause by his business.

>>You may try, but he always avoid the subject because admiting Open >>Source alternatives to their commercial products to be shipped in PHP > > is > >>bad for their business. That is natural. What is odd is that other > > core > >>PHP Group developers are passively admiting it. It sure looks like > > they > >>agree with favouring Zend products by not permitting that free >>alternatives get any exposure. > > > I wonder who else thinks so besides you and Acer. Raise your hands.

At this point of the thread you will hardly see anybody raising hands because all those that have spoken have been slammed.

>>Gee... if only I could tell all that I know about Zend and > > corruption... > >> too bad I can't, at least not in public forum... > > > Then tell it, isn't it what you are doing here right now?

No, this is more serious subject that I can't talk about first because it does not envolve me and I did not learn the information from first hand and second because I was trusted in secret to not tell what I was told. I wish I could because what I was told would reveal the real Zeev Suraski that you do not seem to know. Sorry, that's all I can say. Please don't insist.

>>Uh-oh, I guess you are not aware that Zeev bans people from PHP-DEV > > when > >>they start bringing inconvinient threads that do not interest their >>business. > > > Zeev, is it so?

Oh, you don't know? Some time ago, after I made an invitation to any developers interested to cooperate in the development of an Open Source compiler/cache extension for PHP, Zeev Suraski silently banned my address from the PHP-DEV mailing list.

When I noticed I complained in PHP-PEAR-DEV because we were discussion the merger of Metabase (that you know I developed) with PEAR-DB. Immediately Stig Bakken apologised in the name of the PHP Group for the ban. Only them Zeev came up and tried to justify his abuse of power that he did by banning one individual without even telling the other PHP developers.

This is why I regret that some of you still s*ck for Zeev Suraski as you obviously do not know how far this "ditactor" can go.

> Manuel, I think you are accusing here too much. I do understand your > points about adding these extensions, and, I personally agree with you > on this. But, one thing you should (MUST) remember is that, you use FREE > CODE people you blame created for you. Please more respect, Manuel > Lemos.

I may disagree with many PHP developers and respect most, but for obvious reasons I do not respect power abusing individuals like Zeev Suraski and I am sorry for all those that naively sing his dictator song.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

Aya yay, Manuel.... So this is your personal revenge...

Not nice of you ...

Maxim Maletsky

> -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Shiflett [mailto:shiflettphp.net] > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 12:15 AM > To: maximphp.net > Cc: mlemosacm.org; php-generallists.php.net > Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > > Maxim Maletsky wrote: > > >>Uh-oh, I guess you are not aware that Zeev bans people from PHP-DEV when > >> > >> > >>they start bringing inconvinient threads that do not interest their > business. > >> > >> > > > >Zeev, is it so? > > > > I do seem to recall Manuel finally being banned from PHP-DEV, but I > don't think it's a safe assumption to be picking names of who "pulled > the switch". Regardless, it was more than justified, because he was > filling up the list with the same useless drivel that this thread > consists of. While it may be tolerable on this list (apparently), it > hinders productivity to allow such spam to fill up PHP-DEV. > > Personally, I'm glad that such time wasters are banned from PHP-DEV, and > it actually irritates me to see people such as Rasmus feel the need to > defend PHP, themselves, or anything else on this list. They have much > better things to do, and people should be more mature and respectful. > > I think this entire thread should be "banned" so to speak. :-) > > Chris > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/04/2002 07:39 PM, Maxim Maletsky wrote: > Aya yay, Manuel.... So this is your personal revenge... > > Not nice of you ...

Get your facts straight. I will be disappointed with your (lack) intelligence if you judge me from comments of people that are also not aware of the facts. The PHP-DEV archives are public. Read for yourself.

This thread is about protecting PHP scripts and many people does not want pay the fortunes that Zend is charging. Those people decided that by themselves regardless of my oppinion of Zeev.

>>-----Original Message----- >>From: Chris Shiflett [mailto:shiflettphp.net] >>Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 12:15 AM >>To: maximphp.net >>Cc: mlemosacm.org; php-generallists.php.net >>Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding >> >>Maxim Maletsky wrote: >> >> >>>>Uh-oh, I guess you are not aware that Zeev bans people from PHP-DEV >>> > when > >>>> >>>>they start bringing inconvinient threads that do not interest their >>> >>business. >> >>>> >>>Zeev, is it so? >>> >> >>I do seem to recall Manuel finally being banned from PHP-DEV, but I >>don't think it's a safe assumption to be picking names of who "pulled >>the switch". Regardless, it was more than justified, because he was >>filling up the list with the same useless drivel that this thread >>consists of. While it may be tolerable on this list (apparently), it >>hinders productivity to allow such spam to fill up PHP-DEV. >> >>Personally, I'm glad that such time wasters are banned from PHP-DEV, > > and > >>it actually irritates me to see people such as Rasmus feel the need to >>defend PHP, themselves, or anything else on this list. They have much >>better things to do, and people should be more mature and respectful. >> >>I think this entire thread should be "banned" so to speak. :-) >> >>Chris >> >> >>-- >>PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) >>To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > >

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

Manuel Lemos wrote: > > Not you, I meant Zeev presents lame excuses to avoid the subject of > accepting an Open Source cache extension in PHP. At that time, other PHP > Group core developers remain conviniently quiet. >

Maybe, just maybe, the whole history of how APC came about would be illuminating to people... especially how it relates to the Zend Cache (as it was called then). At the core is the question, how well and how much should you trust someone who ignores a NDA? Do people know that CC was actually *beta testing* the Zend Cache, under NDA. And less than 1 month after they stopped testing the Cache, APC was announced and released to the world? Does that sound like a weird thing to people? Using a sneak peak in such a devious way? And then to wrap such behavior up in the cloak of "Open Source" and "free for all."

And I better not hear anyone question by standing on Open Source in all this... I will ignore such clueless responses.

-- 
===========================================================================
   Jim Jagielski   [|]   jimjaguNET.com   [|]   http://www.jaguNET.com/
      "A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order
             will lose both and deserve neither" - T.Jefferson

attached mail follows:

A short statement, to those of you who may be waiting for me to reply to another spray of idiotic whiny posts from Mr Lemos - I've decided to ignore whatever Mr Lemos has to say, as did most of the other developers in the PHP development team.

What each and every one of you, who had the 'honor' of reading Lemos' hearsay, should be asking himself is who is more trustworthy - a John Doe that whines on just about every forum known to mankind, and ridiculed(*) by literally all of the key developers in PHP (which, contrary to his belief, are not a part of some secret worldwide pact to deprive him from his fame, and tend to disagree on just about everything else); Or, someone that helped shape the way PHP looks ever since 1997, and consistently made some of the most strategic contributions in PHP's history, which at large shaped the way it looks today.

Lemos did have one point of wisdom in his endless flow of misinformation - those of you who do want to know what happened, are more than invited to read php-dev's archives.

(*) or pitied, depending on the point of view

attached mail follows:

> Hello, > > On 08/04/2002 07:39 PM, Maxim Maletsky wrote: > > Aya yay, Manuel.... So this is your personal revenge... > > > > Not nice of you ... > > Get your facts straight. I will be disappointed with your (lack) > intelligence if you judge me from comments of people that are also not > aware of the facts. The PHP-DEV archives are public. Read for yourself. > > This thread is about protecting PHP scripts and many people does not > want pay the fortunes that Zend is charging. Those people decided that > by themselves regardless of my oppinion of Zeev. >

OK, we might not be aware of the facts. I know you, Manuel, for some time and will take the responsibility to apologize if I find you right in this whole deal. But, till now, I only saw you offending. Point me to the list archives that justify you and prove the dictatorship of Zeev.

Maxim Maletsky

attached mail follows:

I have been following this thread. First, I think the discussion is healthy. Everyone obviously cares about the state of PHP. I think it is good to discuss the big picture every now and then.

Acer, I do not agree with your position that Zend is hurting PHP but you do make some valid points or concerns. Any commercial success for any company is good for me. I can then point to them as a reference. Much like Red Hat Linux and IBM's adoption of Linux, I can use Linux in conversations with my clients and with confidence. I remember in 1995 when I whispered that I used Linux. Now Linux is an commercially acceptable alternative to MIcrosoft. I think that success of Zend legitimizes PHP in the minds of some people. For some reason, many businesses and managers place value for things that they pay for or things that are hyped in media or advertising. Right or wrong that is the fact of things. BTW, I do wish they do drop the price of the encoder. That is their choice and I respect it. I am a bit concerned about the recent .Net developments.

Microsoft has now launched the .Net framework to gain marketshare in Web services development. Mono, the open source .Net (www.go-mono.com) initiative, seems like a competitive alternative to PHP. I do not know what this means in the long term. But since you can complile and run on Linux or windows, it seems as though this is an effort to stop the bleeding of the ASP to PHP development migration. I think the PHP community is too large and strong to be affeected. But I am not sure how this will play out with Zend.

Any thoughts...

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee" <leeunassemble.co.uk> To: <php-generallists.php.net> Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

> As someone who subscribed to this list for technical assistance, not to get > numerous posts of politics. I would like to add my piece which I hope will > help to end it hear. > > A lot of people have said the same thing over and over, its about CHOICE. > > You are not forced to use any off the commercial offering from zend at all, > but if you think they are useful then you have the option of purchasing > them. > > Can we try and put this into perspective:- > > If you were to try and setup a similair M$ setup for personal use, what > would you have to get > > + Windows 2000 server > + Visual Studio > + SQL Server > > Now consider a similair UNIX/Linux setup > > + Linux Flavor > + PHP > + Zend Studio Personal > + Mysql, PostgreSQL, Oracle8i, etc > > I haven't included prices because it is pretty obvious which one will be > more expensive. But the point I am trying to make is CHOICE again. With > Microsoft you have no choice but to use there setup, with others you do. > > Sorry if I have added an extra M$ vs Unix argument to this but I could > eventually see this argument spanning of control onto companies such as > RedHat (e.g. RedHat Advanced Server) and that is definately not right. > > Thanks for you time. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maxim Maletsky" <maximphp.net> > To: <mlemosacm.org>; <php-generallists.php.net> > Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 8:34 PM > Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > > > > > so is the opinion of many other PHP users. The problem is not being > > > commercial, the problem is being expensive. > > > > This is true, but I think they know it. Their main customers are ready > > to pay those prices, so what's the problem? They've just chosen this > > business model for themselves. > > > > > I have an brain and use it to make decisions that defend my interests. > > > So it seems that Yahoo people that decided to use Nick Lindrige PHP > > > Accelerator instead of Zend Cache. > > > > > > > > > > There is really a lot of money involved in developments. If, by some > > > > means, I would need to hide a source, I would look at my business > > model, > > > > and, if I got extra $3.000 budgeted to spend on development I will > > spend > > > > them for Zend Encoder instead of resorting to Open Source protecting > > > > solutions. Because, the product to protect my intellectual property > > > > would be chosen by the responsibility of its manufacture. > > > > > > Maxim, be serious, you do not have to pay that sort of money to > > compile > > > programs in other languages, why do you keep forcing the excuse to pay > > > that fortune to Zend? > > > > $3.000 is a lot of money? For middle-range site maybe, but for big > > projects it is not. In fact, when you get to use Java or ASP.NET you, > > over all, will end up paying Waaaaay more money for the whole thing. > > > > > I am sure that many of us are not idiots to pay that fortune to Zend, > > > especially now when have free alternatives. > > > > > > > Now, here we're close to the point. Ideally, it should have both - > > commercial software and open source alternatives. > > > > Learning from Microsoft experience, lots of projects prefer commercial > > solutions. This way, having Zend doing it, we can compete. Otherwise, > > how on the earth MS with ASP would exist? > > > > > Honestly I don't want support from greedy companies like Zend. If you > > go > > > and examine their pricing you see that they charge for every little > > thing. > > > > > > The only thing that that don't charge is the Zend Optimizer. But the > > > truth is, if you have complex scripts, if you do not use a cache > > engine > > > as well, using Zend optimizer makes your scripts run slower because > > the > > > optimizer itself takes a lot of time to analyse complex scripts and in > > > the end often it does not pay using the optimizer if the results are > > not > > > cached. Make your benchmarks with complex scripts and you will see > > what > > > I am talking about. > > > > > > So, the only thing that is "free" from Zend is something that makes > > you > > > wish even more the cache product that is bloody expensive. It took me > > > some time to realize that. Some day I realized that some users were > > > using mirror scripts that made many requests to a site of mine and I > > > noticed that PHP was consuming an huge ammount of CPU time. I was > > > suggested by a open source cache extension developer that using the > > > optiomizer without a cache makes your PHP scripts hog the CPU. I > > turned > > > Zend Optimizer off and it turned out to be true. I never used Zend > > > Optimizer again. > > > > > > I use APC cache and the speedup is tremendous although it is said that > > > Nick Lindrige PHP Accelerator is much faster matching Zend Cache > > > performance. > > > > > > > Cannot comment on this one because I haven't had a similar experience. > > You might be right on this. > > > > > Of course, when you pay they will treat you nicely. It seems that when > > > you refuse to pay they become unreasonable. > > > > No, we weren't paying. > > > > > Sure, mine and of many others. I also think it is stupid to exclude > > Acer > > > because he has different opinions than yours. > > > > Manuel, read the whole thread well. Acer have insulted PHP community. It > > was not about his ideas, but rather about the way he put them like. > > > > > Anyway, do you agree that Zeev is right by boycotting APC people to > > > contribute with they cache extension? If you do, you are just > > defending > > > their monopoly, and so I do not have nothing else to say to you. > > > > Neither I know well this story. But, if the things went the ay you say > > then this is not very nice. Guess, soon or later it will change. > > However, free solutions can always become patches and be available to > > people. So the problem becomes only somewhat like "should we add it or > > should we not". Yet it is available. > > > > > Do you work for Zend? I'm sorry but it surely looks like you do > > because > > > you are trying are to make them look good. > > > > No, I never worked for them. When working in Tokyo's largest English IT > > publication we have met Zend on behalf of my ex-company. Besides that I > > only had PHP Beginner affiliated with Zend a year ago, but even that is > > over now. > > > > > > All I am trying to say, that, Zend plays a big role in PHP development. > > I, personally, do not mind about their pricing because I am not running > > any projects that need their services. I, just as you would, would get > > the alternatives whenever cannot afford their pricings. Actually, I > > would not buy Encoder even if it would cost $5 because I whether do it > > all with Open Source or plan the budget and pay. $3.000 is a lot for a > > simple project, but it is doable for an ASP (Application Service > > Providers), so let's let Zend live - we need it. > > > > One more though - I believe, that, even if encoder will be added to > > every PHP distribution, Zend will still be selling encoder because it > > would be able to support it as an entity. That's how a lot of businesses > > think. > > > > Maxim Maletsky > > > > > > -- > > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >

attached mail follows:

On 08/04/2002 07:56 PM, Maxim Maletsky wrote: >>>Aya yay, Manuel.... So this is your personal revenge... >>> >>>Not nice of you ... >> >>Get your facts straight. I will be disappointed with your (lack) >>intelligence if you judge me from comments of people that are also not >>aware of the facts. The PHP-DEV archives are public. Read for > > yourself. > >>This thread is about protecting PHP scripts and many people does not >>want pay the fortunes that Zend is charging. Those people decided that >>by themselves regardless of my oppinion of Zeev. >> > > > > OK, we might not be aware of the facts. I know you, Manuel, for some > time and will take the responsibility to apologize if I find you right > in this whole deal. But, till now, I only saw you offending. Point me to > the list archives that justify you and prove the dictatorship of Zeev.

Maxim, one thing that I can assure you is that I don't lie, even less in a serious matter like this.

If you really need evidence I am presenting you now the message where Zeev admits that he banned my address without prior consultation of other PHP developers. Just on minor correction, the message was not posted to PHP-DEV but rather copied to the PHP group. Because of my mistake, now I realize I still some people don't see the power abusing dictator that Zeev Suraski is.

Just a few comments. You may also want to read this message from Stig Bakken apologising in the name of PHP Group for the mistake that Zeev made even before he was aware that it was actually Zeev that did it.

http://news.php.net/article.php?group=php.dev&article=%3C1012914625.32272.19.camel%40blackbush.trondheim.fast.no%3E

I also would like to apologise to Andi Gutmans because sometimes mention Zend when in fact I should say Zeev. Andi has always been very polite and professional especially when compared with Zeev.

It would be unfair to attribute all the harm that Zeev had been causing to PHP development and to individuals like myself (to not mention the others also boycotted by Zeev) to everybody that works at Zend when the only one to be blamed is Zeev.

I also regret that the PHP Group has to be dragged by the dirt that Zeev has been creating, but the truth is that they are passively allowing Zeev to do whatever he wants even without prior consultation. I am afraid that while they don't get rid of the stain that is Zeev's act they will always suffer from passively supporting him.

As you may see in this message you may notice that while Zeev first appologises to the group, right after he insults the intelligence of all the members of the PHP group stating that he has the whole right to ban whoever he wants without prior consultation. This means basically that the whole PHP Groups "obeys and shut up" before Zeev Suraski command. It is very sad that the whole Open Source spirit of cooperation and respect is being wasted by the "dictator" Zeev Suraski. :-(

In this matter things are really even worse than this but I am afraid I can't disclose all that I know about other power abuses of Zeev Suraski as I was not the subject of the harm that he has caused.

Sorry for the inconviniences, Manuel Lemos

> Received: from mail.acm.org ([199.222.69.4]) > by giannott.uol.com.br (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA11850 > for <manuellemosuol.com.br>; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 06:42:13 -0200 (BRST) > Received: from mail.zend.com (cvs.zend.com [194.90.96.36]) > by mail.acm.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA81120 > for <mlemosacm.org>; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 03:40:47 -0500 > Received: (qmail 2963 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2002 08:40:45 -0000 > Received: from localhost (HELO zeev-laptop.zend.com) (127.0.0.1) > by localhost with SMTP; 7 Feb 2002 08:40:45 -0000 > Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020207102439.07448fc8localhost> > X-Sender: zeevlocalhost > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 > Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:28:52 +0200 > To: Manuel Lemos <mlemosacm.org> > From: Zeev Suraski <zeevzend.com> > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP list server is banning mlemosacm.org > [Fwd:Mensagem automatica: User unknown [Usuario desconhecido]] > Cc: groupphp.net, Sterling Hughes <sterlingbumblebury.com> > In-Reply-To: <3C61FCA7.322E784Eacm.org> > References: <3C5F2A5C.90AB86AAacm.org> > <1012914625.32272.19.camelblackbush.trondheim.fast.no> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > At 06:03 AM 2/7/2002, Manuel Lemos wrote: >>Hello, >> >>"Stig S. Bakken" wrote: >> > >> > Yes, someone banned your email address from lists.php.net (fixed now). >> > >> > Personally, I find it completely unacceptable that someone goes ahead >> > just banning people just like that. On behalf of the PHP Group, I would >> > like to offer you an apology for this. >> >>Apologies accepted because I don't think the whole PHP Group would agree >>on such immature and coward attitude to ban me or whoever from this any >>other list. > > Just FYI, it was me, and I'm still working towards moving forward with this > ban in a formal way. Your existence on this list has caused real code > contributors to sign off and quite a few others to consider it, and > frankly, that's not worth it. Just because you have an elephant's skin, > infinite patience and absolutely no tact, does not mean you can abuse an > open list like php-dev the way you do. > > I apologize(d) to the group for doing it without consulting/notifying > first, but given the background, I don't believe you deserve any sort of an > apology. You have only yourself to thank. > > I'll keep you posted as to if/when you get officially blocked from > php-dev. I understood you're actually contributing on pear-dev, so we'll > try to differentiate between the two. > > Zeev

attached mail follows:

Well, as meaningless as my 50th of a dollar will be here allow me to add it, short, and to the point.

Free speech. Not free beer.

Unless you come to one of my parties, then the beer is free.

Nicholas D. Mercier Freelance Human

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/04/2002 07:43 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote: >>Not you, I meant Zeev presents lame excuses to avoid the subject of >>accepting an Open Source cache extension in PHP. At that time, other PHP >>Group core developers remain conviniently quiet. > > Maybe, just maybe, the whole history of how APC came about would be > illuminating to people... especially how it relates to the Zend > Cache (as it was called then). At the core is the question, how well > and how much should you trust someone who ignores a NDA? Do people > know that CC was actually *beta testing* the Zend Cache, under NDA. > And less than 1 month after they stopped testing the Cache, APC was > announced and released to the world? Does that sound like a weird > thing to people? Using a sneak peak in such a devious way? And then > to wrap such behavior up in the cloak of "Open Source" and "free for > all." > > And I better not hear anyone question by standing on Open Source in > all this... I will ignore such clueless responses.

Jim, just one question, if somebody broke a NDA, where is the lawsuit that would have happened? APC code is public. Did anybody demonstrate that it was developed with code or knowledge acquired during Zend Cache beta-testing?

Although I have nothing to do with APC matters, all I can see is just suspects, no facts. You assume that somebody broke a NDA because a similar product was released some time after a beta-testing period of Zend cache. The version that I heard is that Zend wanted an absurd ammount of money for using the cache in a cluster and since CC refused to pay that much money, Zend CEO challenged them to develop a cache for free. And they did! What else would Zend expect? It is not that difficult to develop a good PHP cache extension.

Oh, another question: there are two other free PHP cache engines. At least one (PHPA) is better then APC. If your problem in not accepting APC because you do not trust somebody that is a suspect of breaking a NDA, how about accepting PHPA as an Open Source contribution to PHP?

After all PHPA was adopted by Yahoo. They got the source. Some time I asked and Nick said he was willing to contribute if PHP group was open to accept his contribution.

So, what do you say, are you interested or are you going to continue to protect Zend commercial interests? If you do not answer he can assume the last option from you.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

Zeev,

As usual you are still trying to insult the people on this list by throwing more sand to their eyes. You have just missed yet another opportunity to remain quiet, maybe the whole subject goes away and you don't leave here looking so bad. But no, it seems that the mud you got yourself into is not enough.

People have read the facts, appealing for people to not believe in me just because you want so, is futil. People may not be aware of the whole facts but they are not stupid as you assume they can be. Stop insulting their intelligence.

On 08/04/2002 07:48 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > A short statement, to those of you who may be waiting for me to reply to > another spray of idiotic whiny posts from Mr Lemos - I've decided to > ignore whatever Mr Lemos has to say, as did most of the other developers > in the PHP development team. > > What each and every one of you, who had the 'honor' of reading Lemos' > hearsay, should be asking himself is who is more trustworthy - a John > Doe that whines on just about every forum known to mankind, and > ridiculed(*) by literally all of the key developers in PHP (which, > contrary to his belief, are not a part of some secret worldwide pact to > deprive him from his fame, and tend to disagree on just about everything > else); Or, someone that helped shape the way PHP looks ever since 1997, > and consistently made some of the most strategic contributions in PHP's > history, which at large shaped the way it looks today. > > Lemos did have one point of wisdom in his endless flow of misinformation > - those of you who do want to know what happened, are more than invited > to read php-dev's archives. > > (*) or pitied, depending on the point of view >

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

> If you really need evidence I am presenting you now the message where > Zeev admits that he banned my address without prior consultation of > other PHP developers. Just on minor correction, the message was not > posted to PHP-DEV but rather copied to the PHP group. Because of my > mistake, now I realize I still some people don't see the power abusing > dictator that Zeev Suraski is. > > Just a few comments. You may also want to read this message from Stig > Bakken apologising in the name of PHP Group for the mistake that Zeev > made even before he was aware that it was actually Zeev that did it. > > http://news.php.net/article.php?group=php.dev&article=%3C1012914625.3227 2. > 19.camel%40blackbush.trondheim.fast.no%3E

I also found Sterling missing you adding some of your "best" posts.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=manuel+group:mailing.www.php-dev&hl=en &lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=a3v4fd%2429ct%241%40FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw&rnum=1

One thing I noticed reading your emails was how you were representing your thoughts. Sorry for saying that, but you often sounded mean, and, as everywhere else, lack of self-moderation can cause rush reactions from "above".

It is yet not clear to me whether you were "right but mean", or you were "wrong but persistent" - only 1 of 10 discussions you participated in excluded aggressiveness while defending your points of view. Frankly saying, I think you should be more acceptive when your proposals get denied (for whatever reasons).

> I also regret that the PHP Group has to be dragged by the dirt that Zeev > has been creating, but the truth is that they are passively allowing > Zeev to do whatever he wants even without prior consultation. I am > afraid that while they don't get rid of the stain that is Zeev's act > they will always suffer from passively supporting him.

My reason to support Zeev is nothing else but the respect for his contribution to PHP. PHP, besides being my language of choice and many years passion also fits my upcoming family. I find it sad hearing saying you that about Zeev.

> As you may see in this message you may notice that while Zeev first > appologises to the group, right after he insults the intelligence of all > the members of the PHP group stating that he has the whole right to ban > whoever he wants without prior consultation. This means basically that > the whole PHP Groups "obeys and shut up" before Zeev Suraski command. It > is very sad that the whole Open Source spirit of cooperation and respect > is being wasted by the "dictator" Zeev Suraski. :-(

If you say that Zeev is a dictator then, you know, we are not judges here... I still think it is your own opinion and will not try to prove you wrong, it is what 599 other developers should do. So, if this is that important to you, then get lots of proves and fight yourself against Zeev. Regardless the result of your fight, I will still be contributing and praising PHP along with its all key developers for as long as I program in it.

I am sorry, Manuel, but with all my respect to you - I personally see this thread as your personal disagreement with the project's management based on the experience you had. And, I'd like to stop it at this very point.

P.S: I think the only relevant topic remained is whether PHP can include these extensions for caching and compiling source files. That is what we all are for on this mailing list. (actually, even not this one)

All the best, Maxim Maletsky

> Sorry for the inconviniences, > Manuel Lemos > > > > > Received: from mail.acm.org ([199.222.69.4]) > > by giannott.uol.com.br (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA11850 > > for <manuellemosuol.com.br>; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 06:42:13 -0200 > (BRST) > > Received: from mail.zend.com (cvs.zend.com [194.90.96.36]) > > by mail.acm.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA81120 > > for <mlemosacm.org>; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 03:40:47 -0500 > > Received: (qmail 2963 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2002 08:40:45 -0000 > > Received: from localhost (HELO zeev-laptop.zend.com) (127.0.0.1) > > by localhost with SMTP; 7 Feb 2002 08:40:45 -0000 > > Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020207102439.07448fc8localhost> > > X-Sender: zeevlocalhost > > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 > > Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:28:52 +0200 > > To: Manuel Lemos <mlemosacm.org> > > From: Zeev Suraski <zeevzend.com> > > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP list server is banning mlemosacm.org > > [Fwd:Mensagem automatica: User unknown [Usuario desconhecido]] > > Cc: groupphp.net, Sterling Hughes <sterlingbumblebury.com> > > In-Reply-To: <3C61FCA7.322E784Eacm.org> > > References: <3C5F2A5C.90AB86AAacm.org> > > <1012914625.32272.19.camelblackbush.trondheim.fast.no> > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > > At 06:03 AM 2/7/2002, Manuel Lemos wrote: > >>Hello, > >> > >>"Stig S. Bakken" wrote: > >> > > >> > Yes, someone banned your email address from lists.php.net (fixed now). > >> > > >> > Personally, I find it completely unacceptable that someone goes ahead > >> > just banning people just like that. On behalf of the PHP Group, I > would > >> > like to offer you an apology for this. > >> > >>Apologies accepted because I don't think the whole PHP Group would agree > >>on such immature and coward attitude to ban me or whoever from this any > >>other list. > > > > Just FYI, it was me, and I'm still working towards moving forward with > this > > ban in a formal way. Your existence on this list has caused real code > > contributors to sign off and quite a few others to consider it, and > > frankly, that's not worth it. Just because you have an elephant's skin, > > infinite patience and absolutely no tact, does not mean you can abuse an > > open list like php-dev the way you do. > > > > I apologize(d) to the group for doing it without consulting/notifying > > first, but given the background, I don't believe you deserve any sort of > an > > apology. You have only yourself to thank. > > > > I'll keep you posted as to if/when you get officially blocked from > > php-dev. I understood you're actually contributing on pear-dev, so > we'll > > try to differentiate between the two. > > > > Zeev > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/04/2002 09:51 PM, Maxim Maletsky wrote: >>If you really need evidence I am presenting you now the message where >>Zeev admits that he banned my address without prior consultation of >>other PHP developers. Just on minor correction, the message was not >>posted to PHP-DEV but rather copied to the PHP group. Because of my >>mistake, now I realize I still some people don't see the power abusing >>dictator that Zeev Suraski is. >> >>Just a few comments. You may also want to read this message from Stig >>Bakken apologising in the name of PHP Group for the mistake that Zeev >>made even before he was aware that it was actually Zeev that did it. >> >> > > http://news.php.net/article.php?group=php.dev&article=%3C1012914625.3227 > 2. > >>19.camel%40blackbush.trondheim.fast.no%3E > > > I also found Sterling missing you adding some of your "best" posts. > > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=manuel+group:mailing.www.php-dev&hl=en > &lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=a3v4fd%2429ct%241%40FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw&rnum=1

Yes and Sterling is one of a few PHP developers that suffer from deep envy of my work with PHP Classes site. For many years I have been recommending people to use components that are ready to use from the PHP Classes site that solve the problems that they present. However Sterling (and others) do no stand the fact that I recommend PHP Classes components a lot.

As you may read in this post, Sterling shows his envy and calls SPAM to the recommendations that make to users to use classes from the PHP Classes site, a site that the PHP group does not control but has a tremedous success.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3C5C958B.EF611C69%40acm.org&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DSterling%2BHughes%2Bgroup:php.general%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D3C5C958B.EF611C69%2540acm.org%26rnum%3D3

Since Sterling did not like my reply to this thread, he went whining to Zeev threatning to leave the PHP development team. For Zeev that was the perfect excuse to ban from PHP-DEV, a completely different list, because Zeev was not liking that I was encouraging other developers to work on a single Open Source compiler/cache extension.

So, I think now you understand why Sterling was so excited with the ban. In that case you can see clearly that was a revenge from Sterling that worked because it was convinient for Zeev business.

But don't think that ended already. Once in while I have to put up with other whinners that don't like that I recommend PHP Classes site components to people. I am already conformed with the fact that something that is reasonable successful like the PHP Classes is always subject of envy from unsuspected people like the Sterlings of the world.

Now, you tell me: is PHP Classes site a bad thing for the PHP community? What is it so wrong that I recommend people to use the site components? I am not making them use the site, just recommending. The site has about 75,000 subscribers. Could all those subscribers be wrong?

> One thing I noticed reading your emails was how you were representing > your thoughts. Sorry for saying that, but you often sounded mean, and, > as everywhere else, lack of self-moderation can cause rush reactions > from "above". > > It is yet not clear to me whether you were "right but mean", or you were > "wrong but persistent" - only 1 of 10 discussions you participated in > excluded aggressiveness while defending your points of view. Frankly > saying, I think you should be more acceptive when your proposals get > denied (for whatever reasons).

You need look close and understand that my position is defensive. My reactions have to do with the previous postings addressed to me. Often I present suggestions that are refuted with ridiculous arguments. When such arguments get really hostile, hey, I have to defend myself. What do yod do when somebody steps on your foon on purposed? Do you say: thank you for stepping on my foot, sorry to have put my foot and yours? I don't think so.

I could bring you a pile of suggestions refuted with ridiculous arguments, but you'd better dig the archives and see for yourself. Often the suggestions are refuted in that moment, but some time later they end up being implemented as if it was the next best thing and nobody thought of that before. Oh, it is really ridiculous but it is a fact.

>>I also regret that the PHP Group has to be dragged by the dirt that > > Zeev > >>has been creating, but the truth is that they are passively allowing >>Zeev to do whatever he wants even without prior consultation. I am >>afraid that while they don't get rid of the stain that is Zeev's act >>they will always suffer from passively supporting him. > > > My reason to support Zeev is nothing else but the respect for his > contribution to PHP. PHP, besides being my language of choice and many > years passion also fits my upcoming family. I find it sad hearing saying > you that about Zeev.

Sure, Zeev should stick to coding and that's all. He only got into the dirt when he started Zend as a business. As somebody said before, mixing business with Open Source sometimes is not a good idea. Zeev just shows that, despite it would not have to be that way.

>>As you may see in this message you may notice that while Zeev first >>appologises to the group, right after he insults the intelligence of > > all > >>the members of the PHP group stating that he has the whole right to > > ban > >>whoever he wants without prior consultation. This means basically that >>the whole PHP Groups "obeys and shut up" before Zeev Suraski command. > > It > >>is very sad that the whole Open Source spirit of cooperation and > > respect > >>is being wasted by the "dictator" Zeev Suraski. :-( > > > If you say that Zeev is a dictator then, you know, we are not judges

Maxim, this is not a matter of my opinion. You asked for evidence and I showed you the message where Zeev confesses that he banned an individual without asking to anybody in the PHP Group. Since I even got an apology from another PHP Group member that showed that he did not accepted that attitude from Zeev, do you still have doubts that Zeev is a dictactor that imposes himself to any other member of the group?

> here... I still think it is your own opinion and will not try to prove > you wrong, it is what 599 other developers should do. So, if this is

Maxim, that number is wrong. The PHP Group is made of 9 people as you may see here: http://www.php.net/credits.php . These are the people that are really in charge. The opinions of the remaining 590 users that have CVS hardly matter if these people do not agree. Not that is any relevant, but I am one of those 590 users with CVS accounts.

The 600 developers argument is a convinient marketoid argument that some developers use to try to impress people that are really not aware what the numbers mean. It is pretty much like those NetCraft statistics that hardly express a realistic number of actual developers that use PHP. It is good to feed the so called especialized press that most of the times just repeat statements often without ability to verify their accuracy.

> that important to you, then get lots of proves and fight yourself > against Zeev. Regardless the result of your fight, I will still be > contributing and praising PHP along with its all key developers for as > long as I program in it.

Nobody said that you should. Nobody said that you should leave the farm just because Zeev is the black sheep.

> I am sorry, Manuel, but with all my respect to you - I personally see > this thread as your personal disagreement with the project's management > based on the experience you had. And, I'd like to stop it at this very > point.

No problem for me. Keep in mind that I just followed your messages. You questioned my honesty and asked for evidence to back my statements. It seems that despite I demonstrated that my statements are based on truthful facts, you still don't like that I make such statements. That is what I told you before, you are just shooting the messenger. Like Acer mentioned, you are choosing to stick your head in the sand, so that should be only your problem.

> P.S: I think the only relevant topic remained is whether PHP can include > these extensions for caching and compiling source files. That is what we > all are for on this mailing list. (actually, even not this one)

Yes, that was the departure subject. The issues with Zeev are just a reminder that PHP does not come with a built-in cache/compiler extension because Zeev is boycotting it as he has his business to protect despite some PHP developers tried to convince that PHP and Zend are distinct when in practice that is not what we see.

Anyway, despite the silly objections to include APC in PHP, APC code is part of PHP repository as a PECL extension. It is not yet in the shape it should be but it will get there.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:mlemosacm.org] >The site has about >75,000 subscribers. Could all those subscribers be wrong?

The number is misleading. I had to subscribe to see if there was anything worthwhile. That doesn't mean anything was.

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/05/2002 12:02 AM, Mark Charette wrote: > From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:mlemosacm.org] > >>The site has about >>75,000 subscribers. Could all those subscribers be wrong? > > > The number is misleading. I had to subscribe to see if there was anything > worthwhile. That doesn't mean anything was.

That was not the point of the statement. You only have to subscribe if you are interested to see some code that the author requires that you login to download. You can see what the code is about before you download it. You only subscribe if you want to. Nobody makes you. If you did, is because you have seen potential interest. Regardless if you liked what you downloaded you were lead eventually by me or somebody else that recommended the site eventually to solve a problem or yours or of somebody else.

The point of the original statement was to show that people that subscribed to the site was lead by somebody that willing to help, so that could not be a bad thing and the Sterlings of the world imply when they show their envy when I recommend something from the site.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

-----Original Message----- From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:mlemosacm.org] Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 11:15 PM To: php-generallists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

Hello,

On 08/05/2002 12:02 AM, Mark Charette wrote: > From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:mlemosacm.org] > >>The site has about >>75,000 subscribers. Could all those subscribers be wrong? > > > The number is misleading. I had to subscribe to see if there was anything > worthwhile. That doesn't mean anything was.

That was not the point of the statement.

---
Sure it was. You brought up the numbers to prove a point - to bolster your
side with a rhetorical question, but the numbers are suspect; they don't
tell us how _useful_ the classes are. In my case, the classes I looked at
left too much to be desired to be useful, but perhaps other classes on there
_are_ useful - I just didn't need them at the time. You've created a
repository - for that I thank you - but to imply that the number of visits
or downloads or subscribers = the number of people actually using the
classes is disingenuous at best.
Mark C.

attached mail follows:

On 08/05/2002 12:30 AM, Mark Charette wrote: >>>The site has about >>>75,000 subscribers. Could all those subscribers be wrong? >> >> >>The number is misleading. I had to subscribe to see if there was anything >>worthwhile. That doesn't mean anything was. > > > That was not the point of the statement. > --- > Sure it was. You brought up the numbers to prove a point - to bolster your > side with a rhetorical question, but the numbers are suspect; they don't > tell us how _useful_ the classes are. In my case, the classes I looked at

That is up to each user. If I ask all users only a part will bother to reply that they liked the classes they used. That does not mean the rest did not like. Anyway, they benefited from the possibility of evaluating them regardless if they use the classes at all.

> left too much to be desired to be useful, but perhaps other classes on there > _are_ useful - I just didn't need them at the time. You've created a

You may have not liked at all of any of the classes but the fact that you had access and actually evaluated the classes is because like the rest of the 75,000 subscribers you were allowed to share the know how that the respective authors provided in their classes. Some classes may not provide great know how in your opinion but you got that benefit because you wanted, not because you had no choice.

> repository - for that I thank you - but to imply that the number of visits > or downloads or subscribers = the number of people actually using the > classes is disingenuous at best.

You are mistaken, I am not talking about visits. I am talking about people that subscribed to the site, ie, subscribed by submitted their e-mail address in the subscription page, so they did not just look at the pages like any wanderer.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

On Sat, Aug 03, 2002 at 05:03:36PM +0100, Phil Ewington wrote: > Hi, > > I am am writing a function to color code and indent JavaScript source using > regular expressions and cannot seem to get back referencing working.

What you're using isn't "back referencing," it's utilizing "substrings." Back referencing is when you bring the substrings back into the regular expression definition.

> $string = eregi_replace("<(/?)(scr[^>]*)>", "«font color=maroon»\1«/font»", > $string);

Here's what your command asks PHP to do: Find any opening or closing script tag and replace it with "«font color=maroon»\1«/font»." That's not what you intend. Let's make a test script:

<?php

$string = 'begin <script>java is dumb</script> end';

$string = eregi_replace("<(/?)(scr[^>]*)>", "«font color=maroon»\1«/font»", $string);

echo "$string\n";

?>

This is what comes out:

begin «font color=maroon»«/font»java is dumb«font color=maroon»«/font» end

First off, if you want to utilize substrings, you need to use two backslashes. "\\1" instead of "\1". Second, \\1 refers to the first parenthesized part of the pattern, which in the pattern you set up is the forward slash at the beginning of the script tag. So, let's modify the pattern accordingly and see what happens:

$string = eregi_replace("<(/?)(scr[^>]*)>", "«font color=maroon»\\1«/font»", $string);

Creates:

begin «font color=maroon»«/font»java is dumb«font color=maroon»/«/font» end

But, that's still not what you intend. I think you're really looking to surround the scripts with maroon font tags. To do that, you need to tweak the expression to grab the script tags, the script itself and the closing script tag.

$string = eregi_replace('(<script[^>]*>[^<]*</script>)', '<font color="maroon">\\1</font>', $string);

Outputs:

begin <font color="maroon"><script>java is dumb</script></font> end

Notice the use of ' rather than ", which saves a little processor time by not evaluaing the strings for variables.

One final improvement. Font tags are obnoxious. They cause problems for people that choose their own background colors in their browsers. Read http://www.analysisandsolutions.com/code/weberror.htm?ft=y for more info on that. Anyway, I suggest using Cascading Style Sheets, http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1, for the colroing instead:

$string = eregi_replace('(<script[^>]*>[^<]*</script>)', '<code class="js">\\1</code>', $string);

echo "<style>code.js {color: maroon;}</style>\n"; echo "$string\n";

Yields:

<style>code.js {color: maroon;}</style> begin <code class="js"><script>java is dumb</script></code> end

Voila!

--Dan

-- 
               PHP classes that make web design easier
        SQL Solution  |   Layout Solution   |  Form Solution
    sqlsolution.info  | layoutsolution.info |  formsolution.info
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
 4015 7 Av #4AJ, Brooklyn NY     v: 718-854-0335     f: 718-854-0409

attached mail follows:

Hi,

I'm having trouble passing "$the_score" to "edit_s1_php3":

// Display the scores while ( $row = mysql_fetch_array($result) ) { echo( "<form>" . "<p>" . $row["last_name"] . " , " . $row["first_name"] . "</p>" . $row["s1"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s1.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" ."<br>" . $row["s2"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s2.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s3"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" ." <a href='edit_s3.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br> " . $row["s4"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s4.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s5"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s5.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s6"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s6.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s7"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s7.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s8"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s8.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s9"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s9.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s10"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s10.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s11"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s11.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s12"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s12.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s13"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s13.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s14"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s14.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>" . "<br>" . $row["s15"] . " <input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>" . " <a href='edit_s15.php3?name=$name'>edit score</a>". "</form>"); }

I'm pretty sure it's because I don't have the form action defined.. however, each input goes to a diffent action. How do I do this?

Thanks In Advance, Jim

attached mail follows:

Hello,

If there is anybody that should be banned are those that promote the descrimination of individuals just because they have different opinions, just like you are doing.

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

Hi all!

Sorry for being slightly off topic, but this list seems to have it's fair share of MySQL gurus... :-) Anyway, here's my question:

Suppose I create a table (called table1) which has a field with only unique values (called id). Now suppose this table has some rows and that I want to select ONE of them. I usually do this:

"SELECT * FROM table1 WHERE id=somevalue"

Since id is a unique value this can only return (at most) 1 row. Now let's try this:

"SELECT * FROM table1 WHERE id=somevalue LIMIT 1"

This query will produce exactly the same result as the first query. But which one (if any) of the two queries are the most efficient? Is it

a) The first one, since it's a less complicated SQL query (less time to parse) b) The second one, since it will restrict MySQL from searching further whenever a row is found

Any opinions?

/lasso (lassolassoweb.nu)

attached mail follows:

I think, these are identical, because, id column is a primary key and primary keys are unique (and indexed as such).

Sincerely,

Maxim Maletsky

PHP Beginner www.phpbeginner.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Lars Olsson [mailto:lassolassoweb.nu] > Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 10:28 PM > To: php-generallists.php.net > Subject: [PHP] MySQL performance question > > Hi all! > > Sorry for being slightly off topic, but this list seems to have it's > fair share of MySQL gurus... :-) Anyway, here's my question: > > Suppose I create a table (called table1) which has a field with only > unique values (called id). Now suppose this table has some rows and that > I want to select ONE of them. I usually do this: > > "SELECT * FROM table1 WHERE id=somevalue" > > Since id is a unique value this can only return (at most) 1 row. Now > let's try this: > > "SELECT * FROM table1 WHERE id=somevalue LIMIT 1" > > This query will produce exactly the same result as the first query. But > which one (if any) of the two queries are the most efficient? Is it > > a) The first one, since it's a less complicated SQL query (less time to > parse) > b) The second one, since it will restrict MySQL from searching further > whenever a row is found > > Any opinions? > > /lasso (lassolassoweb.nu) > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

attached mail follows:

Hello,

On 08/03/2002 02:37 PM, Bob Lockie wrote: > Can someone point me to some articles on PHP encoding? > It would seem to me that making an interpreted language impossible to read > an impossible task.

PHP is not interprerted since version 4. It compiles internally all the scripts to memory before executing them.

> Hard to read would be possible.

Read the other thread. You may find bcompiler here:

http://pear.php.net/package-info.php?pacid=95

-- 
Regards,
Manuel Lemos

attached mail follows:

Hi

I'm going crazy over this problem so once again I turn here for help. Here's the problem:

I have this script:

<?php $body = "This is some text http://www.php.net/ www.zend.com yes no redblue. An ftp-server: ftp://php.net:21/ abc def 123 - test. "; eregi("(((https?|ftp|gopher)://|(mailto|file|news):)[^'<>"]+|(www|web|w3).[-a-z0-9.]+)[^' .,;<>":]", $body, $urls); print_r($urls); ?>

Which supposedly should find the urls in the variable $body and throw them into the array $urls. The regular expression I use is the same one used in the program urlview (man urlview) which accompanies most installations of the email program mutt.

Here's the output I get:

Parse error: parse error, unexpected ']' in test.php on line 2

I'm not to good with php vs. regexps so no matter how much I try I can't seem to get it to work.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

- Nicklas

attached mail follows:

On Monday 05 August 2002 04:30, Nicklas af Ekenstam wrote: > Hi > > I'm going crazy over this problem so once again I turn here for help. > Here's the problem: > > I have this script: > > <?php > $body = "This is some text http://www.php.net/ www.zend.com yes no redblue. > An ftp-server: ftp://php.net:21/ abc def 123 - test. "; > eregi("(((https?|ftp|gopher)://|(mailto|file|news):)[^'<>"]+|(www|web|w3).[ The double-quote here should be escaped with \ ^

>-a-z0-9.]+)[^' .,;<>":]", $body, $urls); print_r($urls); ditto ^

> Here's the output I get: > > Parse error: parse error, unexpected ']' in test.php on line 2

-- 
Jason Wong -> Gremlins Associates -> www.gremlins.com.hk
Open Source Software Systems Integrators
* Web Design & Hosting * Internet & Intranet Applications Development *
/*
"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging 
their prejudices."
-- William James
*/

attached mail follows:

Hello php-general,

Hi I need help whit PHP and HTML.I like the whay that PHP works. And I would like to learn more. But First i guess i need to learn HTML. What do you recomend..

Thanks

(|) \|||/ / _ _ \ \ o o / =========================o00o===U===o00o====================================== (Ño) Poruka je napisana u 2:05:40 PM Dana Sunday, August 4, 2002 ThE bAt V1.61 Files <none> mailto:beogradjaninshaw.ca ==============================================================================

attached mail follows:

Some sites are:

For HTML: http://www.htmlhelp.com http://www.htmlhelp.com/links/tutorials.htm

For PHP: http://www.php.net http://www.phpbeginer.com http://www.devnetwork.net

Sincerely,

Maxim Maletsky

PHP Beginner www.phpbeginner.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Beogradjanin [mailto:beogradjaninshaw.ca] > Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 11:07 PM > To: php-generallists.php.net > Subject: [PHP] Hi i need help... > > Hello php-general, > > Hi I need help whit PHP and HTML.I like the whay that PHP works. > And I would like to learn more. But First i guess i need to learn > HTML. What do you recomend.. > > Thanks > > (|) > \|||/ > / _ _ \ > \ o o / > =========================o00o===U===o00o================================ == > ==== > (Ño) > Poruka je napisana u 2:05:40 PM > Dana Sunday, August 4, 2002 > ThE bAt V1.61 > Files <none> > mailto:beogradjaninshaw.ca > ======================================================================== == > ==== > > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

attached mail follows:

>Hello php-general, > > Hi I need help whit PHP and HTML.I like the whay that PHP works. > And I would like to learn more. But First i guess i need to learn > HTML. What do you recomend..

The newsgroup comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html and read the tutorials at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/#tutorials

attached mail follows:

Well you see, it recognises the cookies, but when I try and authenticate the user, using the database, something is going wrong, but no error messages are returned

"Monty" <monty3hotmail.com> wrote in message news:B971C49B.12CF3%monty3hotmail.com... > You might get some help if you post only the code relevant to the problem > with a clear explanation of the exact problem. Otherwise, I doubt anyone > will bother looking through all that code you posted links to. > > > > > From: tonyh21tharrison21.fsnet.co.uk (Tony Harrison) > > Newsgroups: php.general > > Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 20:31:54 +0100 > > To: php-generallists.php.net > > Subject: User Authentication Problem > > > > Hi, I need to authenticate users on an included page on my website, but the > > problem is, I cant get it to work. > > view it included at http://members.lycos.co.uk/ajohnh/ (Source at > > http://members.lycos.co.uk/ajohnh/source/index.txt) > > the actual file: > > http://members.lycos.co.uk/ajohnh/templates/twoShea/head.php (source at > > http://members.lycos.co.uk/ajohnh/source/head.txt) > > the location of the script that sets the cookie (I hard-coded the user and > > password combo for user ramonezrule into it): > > http://members.lycos.co.uk/ajohnh/templates/twoShea/setcookie.php (source > > at: http://members.lycos.co.uk/ajohnh/source/setcookie.txt) > > > > > > > > > > >

attached mail follows:

I don't think you mentioned what version of Oracle you are using, so I made a guess.

Take a look at: http://otn.oracle.com/docs/products/oracle9i/content.html. It covers a lot of detail on Oracle itself but I don't think PHP is mentioned, although I have not gone though all the documentation (cos theres load).

Also I just searched on Yahoo and found the following article which may be of some use:

http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/01/26/index4a.html?tw=backend

"Ricardo Fitzgerald" <axismovinet.com.uy> wrote in message news:OUT-3D2ECFD9.MD-1.4.axismovinet.com.uy... > Hi, > > I started with PHP and MYSQL a while ago and now I've been involved in > a huge database project with ORACLE. > My point is I never used it nor develop with ORACLE, so I want to know > where and what kind of information I need to port my web application > developed with php and mysql to port it to ORACLE, and where can I > find information regarding HUGE database applications design using > php. > > So far I only have the book Designing Web Applications using PHP and > MySQL by Luke Wellington, and MySQL by Paul Dubois. > > And i don't have any kind of experience with Oracle, so I would > appreciate any recommendations from experienced developers. > > TIA, > Regards, > Ricardo Fitzgerald > >

attached mail follows:

Hi all,

I have some a very little problem about referencing my site www.vanua2com.

Although, I insert a good tags in the head of my index.php, I couldn't add my site into any search engin.

Before, I used the same method in HTML with real success, with PHP it become impossible.

Any ideas?

Best regards

Ranaivo Rija rijavatu.com BP 1528 Port Vila Vanuatu

attached mail follows:

Many search engines have '?' and '=' signs in the URL, that could be your problem.

Sincerely,

Maxim Maletsky

PHP Beginner www.phpbeginner.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Rija [mailto:rijavatu.com] > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:28 AM > To: PHP-General > Subject: [PHP] Referencement > > Hi all, > > I have some a very little problem about referencing my site www.vanua2com. > > Although, I insert a good tags in the head of my index.php, I couldn't add > my site into any search engin. > > Before, I used the same method in HTML with real success, with PHP it > become impossible. > > Any ideas? > > Best regards > > Ranaivo Rija > rijavatu.com > BP 1528 Port Vila > Vanuatu

attached mail follows:

Hi friend,

I forgot the dot writting my address, the exact address for my site is www.vanua2.com. or www.vanua2.net

this is the source of the header, and I include it into a file named "entete.inc" using Include function. <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <title>Vanua2 - Market Place - First e-shop from Vanuatu, in heart of South-Pacific</title> <meta name="keywords" content="cadeaux, gifts, achat, buy, offrir, give, anniversaire, anniversary, fleurs, flowers, vanille, vanilla, kava, kawa, huile, oil, tamanu, poivre, pepper, naturel, natural, handmade, vanuatu, vanua2, motivation, prestige, jeux, games, loisirs, hobbies, exclusivité, exclusivity, gastronomie, gastronomy, vente, sell, catalogue, catalog, acheter, fêtes, party, fête, guide"> <META name="description" content="First e-shop for South Pacific and Vanuatu Products. Find out Vanuatu gifts and souvenirs, stamps from Vanuatu, very known Natural Products from Vanuatu and many more."> <meta name="robots" content="index, follow"> <LINK rel=stylesheet type="text/css" href="vanua2.css">

Ranaivo Rija rijavatu.com BP 1528 Port Vila Vanuatu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Moore" <dmooreravens-nest.com> To: "Rija" <rijavatu.com> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [PHP] Referencement

> I cannot get to your site. That may be your problem... > > /dkm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rija" <rijavatu.com> > To: "PHP-General" <php-generallists.php.net> > Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 7:27 PM > Subject: [PHP] Referencement > > > Hi all, > > I have some a very little problem about referencing my site www.vanua2com. > > Although, I insert a good tags in the head of my index.php, I couldn't add > my site into any search engin. > > Before, I used the same method in HTML with real success, with PHP it become > impossible. > > Any ideas? > > Best regards > > Ranaivo Rija > rijavatu.com > BP 1528 Port Vila > Vanuatu > >

attached mail follows:

As I mentioned before,

There is nothing wrong with your HTML code. It is, most probably, the URL like:

http://www.vanua2.net/?p=product&cat=2&PHPSESSID=cfc2ea350252d9890f829f2 3fe407995

to cause problems when search engines crawl your pages.

Sincerely,

Maxim Maletsky

PHP Beginner www.phpbeginner.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Rija [mailto:rijavatu.com] > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 2:32 AM > To: Dennis Moore; PHP-General > Subject: Re: [PHP] Referencement > > Hi friend, > > I forgot the dot writting my address, the exact address for my site is > www.vanua2.com. > or www.vanua2.net > > this is the source of the header, and I include it into a file named > "entete.inc" using Include function. > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> > <html> > <head> > <title>Vanua2 - Market Place - First e-shop from Vanuatu, in heart of > South-Pacific</title> > <meta name="keywords" content="cadeaux, gifts, achat, buy, offrir, give, > anniversaire, anniversary, fleurs, flowers, vanille, vanilla, kava, kawa, > huile, oil, tamanu, poivre, pepper, naturel, natural, handmade, vanuatu, > vanua2, motivation, prestige, jeux, games, loisirs, hobbies, exclusivité, > exclusivity, gastronomie, gastronomy, vente, sell, catalogue, catalog, > acheter, fêtes, party, fête, guide"> > <META name="description" content="First e-shop for South Pacific and > Vanuatu > Products. Find out Vanuatu gifts and souvenirs, stamps from Vanuatu, very > known Natural Products from Vanuatu and many more."> > <meta name="robots" content="index, follow"> > <LINK rel=stylesheet type="text/css" href="vanua2.css"> > > > > Ranaivo Rija > rijavatu.com > BP 1528 Port Vila > Vanuatu > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Moore" <dmooreravens-nest.com> > To: "Rija" <rijavatu.com> > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: [PHP] Referencement > > > > I cannot get to your site. That may be your problem... > > > > /dkm > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rija" <rijavatu.com> > > To: "PHP-General" <php-generallists.php.net> > > Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 7:27 PM > > Subject: [PHP] Referencement > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have some a very little problem about referencing my site > www.vanua2com. > > > > Although, I insert a good tags in the head of my index.php, I couldn't > add > > my site into any search engin. > > > > Before, I used the same method in HTML with real success, with PHP it > become > > impossible. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Best regards > > > > Ranaivo Rija > > rijavatu.com > > BP 1528 Port Vila > > Vanuatu > > > > > > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

attached mail follows:

Hi all Has anyone got any suggestions on the easiest way to detect strings like http://www.bla.bla.bla.com/test.html or ftp://ftp.bla.bla.bla.com mailto://namecompany.com etc etc I've got a text buffer containg url's of different typs mixed in with normal text. What I want to do is go through the buffer and htmlise the url type strings so that they are clickable.

Has anyone got any suggestions on the easiest way to do this?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Regards Nick

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attached mail follows:

you gave this as an example

http://www.bla.bla.bla.com/test.html

are you also going to support this type too?

www.bla.bla.bla.com/test.html

if not, I think the easiest way is to use preg_replace() and make "pattern" an array... i've never used this function, so I can't be of use to you there, unfortunately :(

-----Original Message----- From: Nick Allan [mailto:allannirvib.org.au] Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 10:49 AM To: 'php-generallists.php.net' Subject: [PHP] detecting links in strings

Hi all Has anyone got any suggestions on the easiest way to detect strings like http://www.bla.bla.bla.com/test.html or ftp://ftp.bla.bla.bla.com mailto://namecompany.com etc etc I've got a text buffer containg url's of different typs mixed in with normal text. What I want to do is go through the buffer and htmlise the url type strings so that they are clickable.

Has anyone got any suggestions on the easiest way to do this?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Regards Nick

___________________________________________

This email (including all attachments) may contain personal information and is intended solely for the named addressee. It is confidential and may be subject to legal or other professional privilege. Any confidentiality or privilege is not waived or lost because this email has been sent to you by mistake. If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete it from your system and destroy any copies.

This email is also subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. Any personal information in this email must be handled in accordance with the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth).

Emails may be interfered with, may contain computer viruses or other defects and may not be successfully replicated on other systems. We give no warranties in relation to these matters. If you have any doubts about the authenticity of an email purportedly sent by us, please contact us immediately.

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attached mail follows:

I have been having the same problem... I have tried several way to get to the GET items with no success

If I do this (http://localhost/index.php?P=3&ID=413) I get nothing back.. Here are several way I have tried..

$var_http_get = 'HTTP_GET_VARS'; $local_http_get = $$var_http_get; print $local_http_get['P'] . '*<BR>';

echo "<br><hr>"; echo "REQUEST<BR>"; foreach($_REQUEST as $Value) { print "REQUEST=" . $Value . "<BR>"; }

echo "<br><hr>"; $h = "_GET"; foreach($$h as $Value) { print $Value; } echo "<br><hr>";

foreach($_GET as $Value) { print "GET=" . $Value . "<BR>"; } echo "<br><hr>";

foreach($_POST as $Value) { print "POST=" . $Value . "<BR>"; } echo "<br><hr>";

foreach($_SERVER as $Key => $Value) { print "SERVER (" . $Key . ") - " . $Value . "<BR>"; } echo "<br><hr>";

The only thing I get back is from the $_SERVER which looks like (Only posted a few of them)

SERVER (REQUEST_METHOD) - GET SERVER (SCRIPT_NAME) - /INDEX.PHP SERVER (REQUEST_URI) - /INDEX.PHP?P=3&ID=413 SERVER (REQUEST_LINE) - GET /INDEX.PHP?P=3&ID=413 HTTP/1.1 SERVER (USER_AGENT) - Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705)

So it appears that the data is getting to the PHP.EXE but nothing comes out, this is GLOBAL set to ON and OFF in the PHP.INI...

"Bob Lockie" <bjlockielockie.ca> wrote in message news:200208030219.g732JtdN026301gw.lockie.ca...

Is register_globals off in your php.ini? Try $var = $_REQUEST['var'];

>Hi! i have instaled PHP 4.2.2 in a slack 8.1 running apache 2.0.39. >i have a proble with a very basic script (pass variables to a php >script). Is seems not recieve variables, because print somthing like this: > >Your first name is . >Your last name is . >Your E-mail address is . >This is what you had to say: > >In the server log say the variables appear don´t exist. >Here i send this windows files (i try in XP with iis 5.1 and PJP 4.2.2 >and is the same problem) to help you to help me :) >ah! php is working because i test the <? phpinfo(); ?> stuff and works !!! > >Tanks > >

attached mail follows:

do a phpinfo() and look at the end to see what variables are set - maybe this will help shed some light on the problem (??)

-----Original Message----- From: Mr. Nobody aka Rick Hays [mailto:mr.nobodynowhereville.com] Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 10:42 AM To: php-generallists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Problems with HTML forms and PHP. Please Help !!

I have been having the same problem... I have tried several way to get to the GET items with no success

If I do this (http://localhost/index.php?P=3&ID=413) I get nothing back.. Here are several way I have tried..

$var_http_get = 'HTTP_GET_VARS'; $local_http_get = $$var_http_get; print $local_http_get['P'] . '*<BR>';

echo "<br><hr>"; echo "REQUEST<BR>"; foreach($_REQUEST as $Value) { print "REQUEST=" . $Value . "<BR>"; }

echo "<br><hr>"; $h = "_GET"; foreach($$h as $Value) { print $Value; } echo "<br><hr>";

foreach($_GET as $Value) { print "GET=" . $Value . "<BR>"; } echo "<br><hr>";

foreach($_POST as $Value) { print "POST=" . $Value . "<BR>"; } echo "<br><hr>";

foreach($_SERVER as $Key => $Value) { print "SERVER (" . $Key . ") - " . $Value . "<BR>"; } echo "<br><hr>";

The only thing I get back is from the $_SERVER which looks like (Only posted a few of them)

SERVER (REQUEST_METHOD) - GET SERVER (SCRIPT_NAME) - /INDEX.PHP SERVER (REQUEST_URI) - /INDEX.PHP?P=3&ID=413 SERVER (REQUEST_LINE) - GET /INDEX.PHP?P=3&ID=413 HTTP/1.1 SERVER (USER_AGENT) - Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705)

So it appears that the data is getting to the PHP.EXE but nothing comes out, this is GLOBAL set to ON and OFF in the PHP.INI...

"Bob Lockie" <bjlockielockie.ca> wrote in message news:200208030219.g732JtdN026301gw.lockie.ca...

Is register_globals off in your php.ini? Try $var = $_REQUEST['var'];

>Hi! i have instaled PHP 4.2.2 in a slack 8.1 running apache 2.0.39. >i have a proble with a very basic script (pass variables to a php >script). Is seems not recieve variables, because print somthing like this: > >Your first name is . >Your last name is . >Your E-mail address is . >This is what you had to say: > >In the server log say the variables appear don´t exist. >Here i send this windows files (i try in XP with iis 5.1 and PJP 4.2.2 >and is the same problem) to help you to help me :) >ah! php is working because i test the <? phpinfo(); ?> stuff and works !!! > >Tanks > >

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To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

attached mail follows:

On Monday 05 August 2002 08:41, Mr. Nobody aka Rick Hays wrote: > I have been having the same problem... I have tried several way to get to > the GET items with no success > > If I do this (http://localhost/index.php?P=3&ID=413) I get nothing back.. > Here are several way I have tried..

[snip]

$P = $_GET['P'];

or

$P = $HTTP_GET_VARS['P'];

-- 
Jason Wong -> Gremlins Associates -> www.gremlins.com.hk
Open Source Software Systems Integrators
* Web Design & Hosting * Internet & Intranet Applications Development *
/*
"For the man who has everything... Penicillin."
 -- F. Borquin
*/

attached mail follows:

I've recently noticed that when i post text from a textarea field to a text file that ' (single quotes) are written as /' if i have the textarea field include the text that was posted to the file, it displays /' for all the single quotes. if i post the textarea field again, it posts the /' as //'. this cycle continues endlessly.

I have compensated for this by sending the output through a preg_replace to get rid of all the backslashes.

The reason I am writing is because this entire problem has only started happening recently. I used to be able to post textarea field data and recall it back into the textarea field verbatim character per character. What is causing this to change?

I am running apache 1.3.20 on a linux system with php 4.2.1

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com

attached mail follows:

There's a few magic quotes directives in the php.ini which *may* have been changed or had different defaults on a recent upgrade, which may explain the recent problem -- check out the settings with PHP info, and then read up in the manual or php.ini comments to decide what settings you want.

I prefer to leave them as they are for you right now, and instead of preg_repalce, use strip_slashes() [or is it stripslashes()??] to strip out the slashes.

<TEXTAREA name="foo"><?=strip_slashes($myText)?></TEXTAREA> <INPUT type="text" name="foo2" value="<?=strip_slashes($myText)?>">

Lemme know if you need more help.

Justin French

on 05/08/02 1:41 PM, Police Trainee (policetraineeyahoo.com) wrote:

> I've recently noticed that when i post text from a > textarea field to a text file that ' (single quotes) > are written as /' > if i have the textarea field include the text that was > posted to the file, it displays /' for all the single > quotes. if i post the textarea field again, it posts > the /' as //'. this cycle continues endlessly. > > I have compensated for this by sending the output > through a preg_replace to get rid of all the > backslashes. > > The reason I am writing is because this entire problem > has only started happening recently. I used to be able > to post textarea field data and recall it back into > the textarea field verbatim character per character. > What is causing this to change? > > I am running apache 1.3.20 on a linux system with php 4.2.1 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com

attached mail follows:

Hi,

I'm sorry.. I don't really have any idea what I'm doing, but I almost got this thing working. If someone could help, I'd deeply appreciate it.

I need to get these variables to the next script (edit_scores.php3): $the_Score, $player_name so I can update the field (s1) WHERE the last_name is $player_name

I'm pretty close with this:------------

// Display the scores while ( $row = mysql_fetch_array($result) ) { echo("<table border='0' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='0'>" . "<tr>". "<td>". $row["last_name"]. "</td>" . "<td>". $row["first_name"] ."</td>". "<td></td><td></td><td></td>". "</tr>". "<tr>". "<td>".$row["s1"] ."</td>". "<td>"."<form action = edit_score.php3>". "</td>". "<td>"."<input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>"."<input type='hidden' name='$player_name'>"."</td>". "<td>"."<input type='submit' name='s1' value='edit'>"."</td>". "<td>"."</form>"."</td>". "</tr>".

etc..etc.. more scores -------------------------

$the_score is passed ok... but how do I include passing the $player_name?

The result from above in the url is: cpa_golf/edit_score.php3?the_score=23&nichols=++&s1=edit

"nichols" is "$player_name" but is will not echo in the script. I need to use "s1" (it is the name of the field I want to update where the player is "nichols"

Code I use in edit_score.php3 is:-----------------(this ain't quite right yet)

echo("$players_name". ", ". "$the_score"); //to check if the varibles are being passed to the script

//update

$sql = "update scores set s1 = '$the_score' where last_name = '$player_name'"; if (mysql_query($sql)) { echo("<P>Your score has been added.</P>"); } else { echo("<P>Error adding submitted score: " . mysql_error() . "</P>"); }

---------------

Sorry.. I don't do this often. Again, I really would appreciate some help.

Jim Long

attached mail follows:

try this:

"<td><input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'><input type='hidden' name='player_name' value='$player_name'></td>".

hidden input fields need both a name and a value..

Martin

-----Original Message----- From: Jim Long [mailto:jimjimlong.net] Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 3:34 PM To: php Subject: [PHP] Passing varibles

Hi,

I'm sorry.. I don't really have any idea what I'm doing, but I almost got this thing working. If someone could help, I'd deeply appreciate it.

I need to get these variables to the next script (edit_scores.php3): $the_Score, $player_name so I can update the field (s1) WHERE the last_name is $player_name

I'm pretty close with this:------------

// Display the scores while ( $row = mysql_fetch_array($result) ) { echo("<table border='0' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='0'>" . "<tr>". "<td>". $row["last_name"]. "</td>" . "<td>". $row["first_name"] ."</td>". "<td></td><td></td><td></td>". "</tr>". "<tr>". "<td>".$row["s1"] ."</td>". "<td>"."<form action = edit_score.php3>". "</td>". "<td>"."<input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>"."<input type='hidden' name='$player_name'>"."</td>". "<td>"."<input type='submit' name='s1' value='edit'>"."</td>". "<td>"."</form>"."</td>". "</tr>".

etc..etc.. more scores -------------------------

$the_score is passed ok... but how do I include passing the $player_name?

The result from above in the url is: cpa_golf/edit_score.php3?the_score=23&nichols=++&s1=edit

"nichols" is "$player_name" but is will not echo in the script. I need to use "s1" (it is the name of the field I want to update where the player is "nichols"

Code I use in edit_score.php3 is:-----------------(this ain't quite right yet)

echo("$players_name". ", ". "$the_score"); //to check if the varibles are being passed to the script

//update

$sql = "update scores set s1 = '$the_score' where last_name = '$player_name'"; if (mysql_query($sql)) { echo("<P>Your score has been added.</P>"); } else { echo("<P>Error adding submitted score: " . mysql_error() . "</P>"); }

---------------

Sorry.. I don't do this often. Again, I really would appreciate some help.

Jim Long

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attached mail follows:

You also might consider adding escaped quotes about the $player_name. e.g. $player_name="Bob Jones";

<input type=hidden name=player_name value=\"$player_name\">

This insures that both Bob and Jones gets into the player_name variable. Hope this helps. Hugh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Towell" <martin.towellworld.net> To: <jimjimlong.net>; "php" <php-generallists.php.net> Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 9:57 PM Subject: RE: [PHP] Passing varibles

> try this: > > "<td><input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'><input > type='hidden' name='player_name' value='$player_name'></td>". > > hidden input fields need both a name and a value.. > > Martin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Long [mailto:jimjimlong.net] > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 3:34 PM > To: php > Subject: [PHP] Passing varibles > > > Hi, > > I'm sorry.. I don't really have any idea what I'm doing, but I almost > got this thing working. If someone could help, I'd deeply appreciate it. > > I need to get these variables to the next script (edit_scores.php3): > $the_Score, $player_name > so I can update the field (s1) WHERE the last_name is $player_name > > I'm pretty close with this:------------ > > // Display the scores > while ( $row = mysql_fetch_array($result) ) { > echo("<table border='0' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='0'>" . > "<tr>". > "<td>". $row["last_name"]. "</td>" . > "<td>". $row["first_name"] ."</td>". > "<td></td><td></td><td></td>". > "</tr>". > "<tr>". > "<td>".$row["s1"] ."</td>". > "<td>"."<form action = edit_score.php3>". "</td>". > "<td>"."<input type='text' name='the_score' > size='3'>"."<input > type='hidden' name='$player_name'>"."</td>". > "<td>"."<input type='submit' name='s1' > value='edit'>"."</td>". > "<td>"."</form>"."</td>". > "</tr>". > > etc..etc.. more scores ------------------------- > > $the_score is passed ok... but how do I include passing the > $player_name? > > The result from above in the url is: > cpa_golf/edit_score.php3?the_score=23&nichols=++&s1=edit > > "nichols" is "$player_name" but is will not echo in the script. > I need to use "s1" (it is the name of the field I want to update where > the player is "nichols" > > Code I use in edit_score.php3 is:-----------------(this ain't quite > right yet) > > echo("$players_name". ", ". "$the_score"); > //to check if the varibles are being passed to the script > > //update > > $sql = "update scores set > s1 = '$the_score' > where last_name = '$player_name'"; > if (mysql_query($sql)) { > echo("<P>Your score has been added.</P>"); > } else { > echo("<P>Error adding submitted score: " . > mysql_error() . "</P>"); > } > > --------------- > > Sorry.. I don't do this often. > Again, I really would appreciate some help. > > Jim Long > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >

attached mail follows:

> "<td>"."<input type='text' name='the_score' size='3'>"."<input > type='hidden' name='$player_name'>"."</td>"."<td>"."<input type='submit' name='s1' > value='edit'>"."</td>".

Try it this way:

"<input type='hidden' name='the_score' value='$the_score'>" "<input type='hidden' name='player_name' value='$player_name'>"

That should get you there...

CYA, Dave

attached mail follows:

I'm trying to add a password retrvial code to my forum, but so far it's eluding me, all I want it to grab from the database is the username, email and password, then email it to the person. Sounds simple but for some reason it refuses to work for me. Any help would be appreciated very much Thank you in advance Deadsam

attached mail follows:

On Monday 05 August 2002 12:37, Deadsam wrote: > I'm trying to add a password retrvial code to my forum, but so far it's > eluding me, all I want it to grab from the database is the username, email > and password, then email it to the person. Sounds simple but for some > reason it refuses to work for me. > Any help would be appreciated very much

Did you want help with getting the code that you have written to work, or did you want someone to write some code for you?

If the former then show your code. If the latter pay someone to do it.

-- 
Jason Wong -> Gremlins Associates -> www.gremlins.com.hk
Open Source Software Systems Integrators
* Web Design & Hosting * Internet & Intranet Applications Development *
/*
A pessimist is a man who has been compelled to live with an optimist.
		-- Elbert Hubbard
*/

attached mail follows:

Short answer:

Select the username/password from the table 'users' where the email address matches the one submitted via a form, then use mail() to send that info to them.

Long answer:

Let's say they submit their email address via a POSTed form.

then the script which process' that POSTed form would do the following:

<? // UNTESTED CODE

$user_email = $_POST['email']; // the POSTed email address

$sql = "SELECT username, password FROM users_table WHERE email_address='{$user_email}'"; $result = mysql_query($sql);

if(!$result) { echo "your email address didn't match any of our records"; } else { $myrow = mysql_fetch_array($result); $subject = "your password reminder from mysite.com"; $message = "Your username/password for mysite.com is {$myrow['username']}/{$myrow['password']}"; $headers = "From: passwordsmysite.com";

mail($user_email, $subject, $message, $headers); } ?>

Tweak to suit your needs. If you wanted them to submit their username, rather than their email address, just swap a few things around.

Regards,

Justin French

on 05/08/02 2:37 PM, Deadsam (deadsamsympatico.ca) wrote:

> I'm trying to add a password retrvial code to my forum, but so far it's > eluding me, all I want it to grab from the database is the username, email > and password, then email it to the person. Sounds simple but for some reason > it refuses to work for me. > Any help would be appreciated very much > Thank you in advance > Deadsam > >

attached mail follows:

on 05/08/02 2:54 PM, Jason Wong (php-generalgremlins.com.hk) wrote:

> If the former then show your code. If the latter pay someone to do it.

I guess I was feeling a bit friendly today :)

Justin

attached mail follows:

On Monday 05 August 2002 12:57, Justin French wrote: > on 05/08/02 2:54 PM, Jason Wong (php-generalgremlins.com.hk) wrote: > > If the former then show your code. If the latter pay someone to do it. > > I guess I was feeling a bit friendly today :)

It's Monday so you're fresh and full of vigour ;-)

-- 
Jason Wong -> Gremlins Associates -> www.gremlins.com.hk
Open Source Software Systems Integrators
* Web Design & Hosting * Internet & Intranet Applications Development *
/*
The ultimate game show will be the one where somebody gets killed at the end.
		-- Chuck Barris, creator of "The Gong Show"
*/

attached mail follows:

Hello ! I´m developing a dinamic site and I started to use PHP, MySQL and Apache. The things are going well, I´m already using database, inserting, everything .... But when I try to pass some variables from a Form to a PHP isn´t working ! Somebody could help me ? Here is my code .....

HTML <html> <p align="center"><font face="Arial Black" size="5">Banco de Dados Cesop</font></p> <p align="center">&nbsp;</p> <form action="validaUsuario.php" method="post" > <p align="center">Usuário:&nbsp; <input type="text" NAME="nome" size="20"></p> <p align="center">Senha:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <input type="password" NAME="senha" size="20"></p> <p align="center"><input type="submit" value="Submeter" name="B1"></p>

</form> </body> </html>

PHP <? $connection = mysql_connect("localhost", "renato", "ren9ato8") or die ("Unable to connect to server."); $db = mysql_select_db("cesop", $connection) or die ("Unable to select database.");

echo $senha;

$sql = "SELECT nome FROM users WHERE nome='$nome' and password='$senha'"; $result = mysql_query($sql, $connection) or die ("Unable to get results."); $num = mysql_numrows($result) or die ("You're not authorized to be here. If you feel you have recieved this message in error, please contact the <a href=\"mailto:tyler.longrenmidiowa.net\">webmaster</a>");

if ($num == 1) { echo "<p>You can be here<br>"; echo "Your username is $nome</p>"; } ?>

Thanks !

attached mail follows:

Search the archives for "register globals"... this has been discussed in around 2000+ emails to the group.

In short, include this line at the top of the form processing script:

<? $nome = $_POST['nome']; $senha = $_POST['senha']; ?>

... or refer to the POSTed (form) variables as $_POST['variable_name'] rather than $variable_name.

Justin French

on 05/08/02 9:29 AM, Renato B. Miranda (renato_bmyahoo.com.br) wrote:

> Hello ! > I´m developing a dinamic site and I started to use PHP, MySQL and > Apache. > The things are going well, I´m already using database, inserting, > everything .... > But when I try to pass some variables from a Form to a PHP isn´t working > ! > Somebody could help me ? > Here is my code ..... > > HTML > <html> > <p align="center"><font face="Arial Black" size="5">Banco de Dados > Cesop</font></p> > <p align="center">&nbsp;</p> > <form action="validaUsuario.php" method="post" > > <p align="center">Usuário:&nbsp; <input type="text" NAME="nome" > size="20"></p> > <p align="center">Senha:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <input > type="password" NAME="senha" size="20"></p> > <p align="center"><input type="submit" value="Submeter" name="B1"></p> > > </form> > </body> > </html> > > PHP > <? > $connection = mysql_connect("localhost", "renato", "ren9ato8") > or die ("Unable to connect to server."); > $db = mysql_select_db("cesop", $connection) > or die ("Unable to select database."); > > echo $senha; > > $sql = "SELECT nome > FROM users > WHERE nome='$nome' and password='$senha'"; > $result = mysql_query($sql, $connection) > or die ("Unable to get results."); > $num = mysql_numrows($result) > or die ("You're not authorized to be here. If you feel you have > recieved this > message in error, please contact the <a > href=\"mailto:tyler.longrenmidiowa.net\">webmaster</a>"); > > if ($num == 1) { > echo "<p>You can be here<br>"; > echo "Your username is $nome</p>"; > } > ?> > > Thanks ! >

attached mail follows:

at www.php.net of course!

attached mail follows:

Look at http://www.php.net/download-docs.php. There are several options for several different languages. I have taken the many html files tar.bz2, extracted to a directory in /usr/share/doc/PHP and made a bookmark to /usr/share/doc/PHP/index.html

On Sunday 04 August 2002 02:20, support-botsaudiabm.net wrote: > Where can I download the php manual with the user notes (in html format) > > > Thank You > > _______________________ > http://www.SaudiABM.com > _______________________ > About Islam : > http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-20479/Audio.htm > http://sultan.org > _______________________

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