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php-general-digest-help
lists.php.net
Date: Mon May 05 2008 - 11:26:09 CDT
- Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
php-general Digest 5 May 2008 16:26:09 -0000 Issue 5442
Topics (messages 273869 through 273917):
Re: php page scrapping challenge!
273869 by: Craige Leeder
273870 by: paragasu
Phpstop.com project - wanna be a writer?
273871 by: Auto-Deppe, C. Haensel
273891 by: tedd
273892 by: Chris Haensel
273893 by: Paul Scott
273897 by: Jason Pruim
273904 by: Robert Cummings
273905 by: Robert Cummings
273906 by: Robert Cummings
273909 by: tedd
273912 by: Jay Blanchard
273915 by: Daniel Brown
Where to start!
273872 by: Jorge
273873 by: Tony Marston
273874 by: Robert Cummings
273875 by: Richard Heyes
273876 by: Børge Holen
273878 by: Tony Marston
273881 by: Richard Heyes
273882 by: Tony Marston
273883 by: Richard Heyes
273886 by: Jason Pruim
273888 by: Richard Heyes
273889 by: Tony Marston
273890 by: Tony Marston
273894 by: Richard Heyes
273898 by: Dan Joseph
273900 by: Robert Cummings
273901 by: Robert Cummings
273902 by: Robert Cummings
273903 by: Jason Pruim
273908 by: Tony Marston
273910 by: Richard Heyes
273911 by: Richard Heyes
273913 by: Tony Marston
273914 by: Jason Pruim
Re: retrieve email address
273877 by: Yui Hiroaki
Re: Apache child pid segfault + APD
273879 by: Waynn Lue
273880 by: Aschwin Wesselius
273896 by: Mario Guenterberg
Re: set_error_handler help
273884 by: Thiago Pojda
Re: SMS Cellular Text Messaging
273885 by: Michelle Konzack
Re: [PHP-DB] Shopping cart session handling
273887 by: Thiago Pojda
Re: Any Running Simple Ajax Sample for Php
273895 by: Andrew Ballard
Re: Web page excerpt editor
273899 by: tedd
273907 by: Jason Pruim
273916 by: Eric Butera
Recommended book on PHP/SOAP
273917 by: Todd Cary
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
attached mail follows:
Hey Paragasu,
Sounds like fun, though not really that difficult. It is a very
horrible site, but it shouldnt' take that much to create the script
for. They do not, in-fact, use Javascript to pull the movie times from
the database. They reload the page with the added querystring
variables (for my run through):
isSearchBy=cin // How are we searching
visCinID=1000 // What is the cinema ID
visMovieName=Iron+Man // What movie do we want to see?
I'd give it a try, but I am not setup to use curl at the moment, and
don't anticipate having done so in time to do this.
What you need to do is access the url that assigns you your session
ID, and store that for subsequent curl calls to the server. You should
pass it with all of them. You also need to find out where they
generate the (what I assume is) dynamic part of their url so you can
use that to access the actually movie url. The part in my url was:
.../(3yujtbmepau3jb45a22gju55)/...
Good luck with this project, and let us know how it goes.
- Craige
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:26 PM, paragasu <paragasugmail.com> wrote:
> well, this going to be fun.
>
> the website i am trying to scrapped is http://www.cathayholdings.com.my/
> it is a movie cinema website with very irritating design. They really tried
> to imposed the
> security to the point it is really not user friendly. The whole website
> written in asp.
>
> I really hate to go around looking for the show time for the latest movie
> and decided to
> build my own simple website to display the movie and show time from the
> cathay cinema
> my own way.
>
> But, it is proven not so easy to do. The datetime buried deep inside the
> online booking. Thus
> user will be able to see the showtimes only when the user click the online
> booking. Then, after
> user click the online booking, the link open on a new window and generate a
> cookies. this cookies
> will be part of the URL. So basically, there is two cookie value pass to the
> server. (one GET request & one in HTTP header)
>
> Apart from that, they use javascript (AJAX?) to pull the showtime from the
> server after you have to
> click 3 times. OMG.. i only wan't to know the time and have to go thus whole
> step.
>
> using php curl library to simulate the request just to get the movie name
> and show time list from the
> server. it is possible? post your code..
>
> ** no reward, just for php programming fun..
>
attached mail follows:
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Craige Leeder <cleedergmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Paragasu,
>
> Sounds like fun, though not really that difficult. It is a very
> horrible site, but it shouldnt' take that much to create the script
> for. They do not, in-fact, use Javascript to pull the movie times from
> the database. They reload the page with the added querystring
> variables (for my run through):
>
> isSearchBy=cin // How are we searching
> visCinID=1000 // What is the cinema ID
> visMovieName=Iron+Man // What movie do we want to see?
>
> I'd give it a try, but I am not setup to use curl at the moment, and
> don't anticipate having done so in time to do this.
>
> What you need to do is access the url that assigns you your session
> ID, and store that for subsequent curl calls to the server. You should
> pass it with all of them. You also need to find out where they
> generate the (what I assume is) dynamic part of their url so you can
> use that to access the actually movie url. The part in my url was:
> .../(3yujtbmepau3jb45a22gju55)/...
>
> Good luck with this project, and let us know how it goes.
> - Craige
>
ups.. nice to hear someone agree with me =) .. at least i am not alone
saying that.
beautiful website with very poor usability is really horrible to use. I
will in fact i should
because i don't like the website usability.. get back to you later..
attached mail follows:
Hi guys and girls
I have followed this group for quite some time now and have seen some great
tipps and tricks concerning PHP and its surroundings.
I have gotten hold of a very nice domain name ( phpstop.com ) and have
thought of something nice I could do with it. Now, my idea is to start an
E-ducation (online PHP education) website with some authors who know what
they're talking about.
I am not a master in PHP. I just know what I have to know. So I thought that
some of you might be interested in taking part in this new thing.
Some of my ideas (not too much thought through as I know some of you will
have better ideas):
-- very simple website structure
-- a PDF magazine sent out every 4 weeks or so with tutorials, news,
updates, etc
-- a resource link database
-- links to and introductions of opensource projects (list member projects?)
-- a site / code review corner (subscribers ask the community to review
their sites / code)
-- website of the month ?
If you are interested in taking part, please let me know either on or off
list. My email:
haenselchftp.com
Any input is appreciated. Any designers out there want to make a nice logo?
Send em in, everything welcome. I will put up a poll for the logos I've
received and we'll take the one that gets the most votes.
Cheers !
Chris
attached mail follows:
>I have gotten hold of a very nice domain name ( phpstop.com ) and have
>thought of something nice I could do with it. Now, my idea is to start an
>E-ducation (online PHP education) website with some authors who know what
>they're talking about.
I've been thinking about the same thing.
http://php1.net/
Just not ready to launch yet.
Cheers,
tedd
--
-------
http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com
attached mail follows:
ROFL!
I can not believe Mr Tedd THE Sperling has been thinking bout the same
thing.
Well, you are going to do it webbased, aren't ya? I was thinking to have it
in PDF magazine style.
Maybe I can have you as a writer? ;o) And maybe 2 or 3 more of this list....
The "big names", ya know *g*
-----Original Message-----
From: tedd [mailto:tedd.sperlinggmail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:08 PM
To: c.haenselauto-deppe.de; php-generallists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP] Phpstop.com project - wanna be a writer?
>I have gotten hold of a very nice domain name ( phpstop.com ) and have
>thought of something nice I could do with it. Now, my idea is to start an
>E-ducation (online PHP education) website with some authors who know what
>they're talking about.
I've been thinking about the same thing.
http://php1.net/
Just not ready to launch yet.
Cheers,
tedd
--
-------
http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
attached mail follows:
On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 15:12 +0200, Chris Haensel wrote:
> Maybe I can have you as a writer? ;o) And maybe 2 or 3 more of this list....
> The "big names", ya know *g*
Oh well, my name is only 4 letters so I guess I am out? ;)
--Paul
All Email originating from UWC is covered by disclaimer
http://www.uwc.ac.za/portal/public/portal_services/disclaimer.htm
attached mail follows:
On May 5, 2008, at 9:17 AM, Paul Scott wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 15:12 +0200, Chris Haensel wrote:
>> Maybe I can have you as a writer? ;o) And maybe 2 or 3 more of this
>> list....
>> The "big names", ya know *g*
>
> Oh well, my name is only 4 letters so I guess I am out? ;)
>
> --Paul
That's why you make up a longer middle name... Paul "The ultimate
programmer who can do anything in any language blindfolded with the
computer displaying in a foreign language" Scott ;)
--
Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424-9337
www.raoset.com
japruimraoset.com
attached mail follows:
On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 09:08 -0400, tedd wrote:
> >I have gotten hold of a very nice domain name ( phpstop.com ) and have
> >thought of something nice I could do with it. Now, my idea is to start an
> >E-ducation (online PHP education) website with some authors who know what
> >they're talking about.
>
> I've been thinking about the same thing.
>
> http://php1.net/
>
> Just not ready to launch yet.
Oh my god me too:
http://www.php.net
There's a mailing list... and it doesn't come with popups and shit :)
Cheers,
Rob.
--
http://www.interjinn.com
Application and Templating Framework for PHP
attached mail follows:
On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 15:17 +0200, Paul Scott wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 15:12 +0200, Chris Haensel wrote:
> > Maybe I can have you as a writer? ;o) And maybe 2 or 3 more of this list....
> > The "big names", ya know *g*
>
> Oh well, my name is only 4 letters so I guess I am out? ;)
I was gonna use a big font, but most of ya prolly have HTML turned
off... come to think of it, so do I :)
Cheers,
Rob.
--
http://www.interjinn.com
Application and Templating Framework for PHP
attached mail follows:
On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 09:34 -0400, Jason Pruim wrote:
> On May 5, 2008, at 9:17 AM, Paul Scott wrote:
>
> >
> > On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 15:12 +0200, Chris Haensel wrote:
> >> Maybe I can have you as a writer? ;o) And maybe 2 or 3 more of this
> >> list....
> >> The "big names", ya know *g*
> >
> > Oh well, my name is only 4 letters so I guess I am out? ;)
> >
> > --Paul
>
> That's why you make up a longer middle name... Paul "The ultimate
> programmer who can do anything in any language blindfolded with the
> computer displaying in a foreign language" Scott ;)
That's multiple words... you need hyphens... no worries though, they'll
still be SEO friendly with hyphens... not so true with underscores
though :/
Cheers,
Rob.
--
http://www.interjinn.com
Application and Templating Framework for PHP
attached mail follows:
At 3:12 PM +0200 5/5/08, Chris Haensel wrote:
>ROFL!
>
>I can not believe Mr Tedd THE Sperling has been thinking bout the same
>thing.
>
>Well, you are going to do it webbased, aren't ya? I was thinking to have it
>in PDF magazine style.
>
>Maybe I can have you as a writer? ;o) And maybe 2 or 3 more of this list....
>The "big names", ya know *g*
I'm not sure as to how you meant that -- I hope it was in a good way.
I expressed my thoughts because we might find some common ground, or
not -- just an idea.
I don't go by the name Tedd anymore -- non sum qualis eram.
Cheers,
tedd
--
-------
http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com
attached mail follows:
[snip]
I have gotten hold of a very nice domain name ( phpstop.com ) and have
thought of something nice I could do with it. Now, my idea is to start
an
E-ducation (online PHP education) website with some authors who know
what
they're talking about.
[/snip]
By the very act of responding to this I am a writer, no?
Actually sounds like a good idea save for the numerous other sites out
there that purport to do the same thing. There are many authors with
expertise in PHP writing every day all over the globe. I only say this
to make you aware of the competition. There are even non-PHP specific
sites out there that have a raft of PHP articles (http://www.evolt.org
comes to mind as does http://www.alistapart.com where the primary focus
is design). http://www.phparch.com is a very popular publishing site for
PHP'ers.
I am not trying to dampen your enthusiasm for this kind of project at
all. I just want you to know that while you have a noble idea you may
face challenges getting writers (and readers) due to the established
sites.
attached mail follows:
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:59 AM, tedd <tedd.sperlinggmail.com> wrote:
> At 3:12 PM +0200 5/5/08, Chris Haensel wrote:
> > The "big names", ya know *g*
> >
>
> I don't go by the name Tedd anymore -- non sum qualis eram.
I'd visit the site just to see who the Big Names[tm] are. ;-P
--
</Daniel P. Brown>
Dedicated Servers - Intel 2.4GHz w/2TB bandwidth/mo. starting at just
$59.99/mo. with no contract!
Dedicated servers, VPS, and hosting from $2.50/mo.
attached mail follows:
First I would like to say that I have had PHP experience but not enough to
say I am a PHP developer.
I want to use PHP to build a site that uses MySQL, I am building it from
scratch so I don't know where to start, should I start with PHP and design a
database around my code, or should I designs the db and design the site are
the db.
is it just a matter of preference or is there a recommended way to do this?
Thanks
attached mail follows:
As a person who has been developing database applications for several
decades my advice is to ALWAYS start with the database design, then build
your code around that. The database must be properly normalised otherwise it
will be difficult to get at the data you need in an efficient manner.
OO "purists" will say that you should start with your class hierarchy and
leave the database till last as it is a "mere implementation detail". This
usually results in a software structure which is different from the database
structure - known as Object-Relational impedance mismatch - and requires the
addition of an extra layer of software known as an Object Relational Mapper
(ORM). I consider these to be EVIL, as discussed in
http://www.tonymarston.net/php-mysql/object-relational-mappers-are-evil.html
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
""Jorge"" <japrejamsn.com> wrote in message
news:E0.C0.40102.C04BE184pb1.pair.com...
> First I would like to say that I have had PHP experience but not enough to
> say I am a PHP developer.
>
> I want to use PHP to build a site that uses MySQL, I am building it from
> scratch so I don't know where to start, should I start with PHP and design
> a database around my code, or should I designs the db and design the site
> are the db.
>
> is it just a matter of preference or is there a recommended way to do
> this?
>
> Thanks
attached mail follows:
On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 01:15 -0600, Jorge wrote:
> First I would like to say that I have had PHP experience but not enough to
> say I am a PHP developer.
>
> I want to use PHP to build a site that uses MySQL, I am building it from
> scratch so I don't know where to start, should I start with PHP and design a
> database around my code, or should I designs the db and design the site are
> the db.
>
> is it just a matter of preference or is there a recommended way to do this?
Database first. You can tailor it when you write your code if you've
missed stuff, but in a "from-scratch-project" it should be 90%
determined before you write the code.
Cheers,
Rob.
--
http://www.interjinn.com
Application and Templating Framework for PHP
attached mail follows:
> The database must be properly normalised otherwise it
> will be difficult to get at the data you need in an efficient manner.
Not true. If your needs are simple for example, normalisation can
increase the complexity of a schema, hence increasing development time
needed. Sometimes for example you could use something like a SET type,
and search for something in it using FIND_IN_SET().
--
Richard Heyes
+----------------------------------------+
| Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
| http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
+----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
On Monday 05 May 2008 09:15:29 Jorge wrote:
> First I would like to say that I have had PHP experience but not enough to
> say I am a PHP developer.
>
> I want to use PHP to build a site that uses MySQL, I am building it from
> scratch so I don't know where to start, should I start with PHP and design
> a database around my code, or should I designs the db and design the site
> are the db.
>
> is it just a matter of preference or is there a recommended way to do this?
>
> Thanks
I did it all from scratch (both the learning, and creating), did it the other
way around, I started with PHP, REGRETTED that for some time.
Start off with the db structure, then go over it again, and again for good
measure.
--
---
Børge Holen
http://www.arivene.net
attached mail follows:
"Richard Heyes" <richardhphpguru.org> wrote in message
news:481ED03B.7090200phpguru.org...
> > The database must be properly normalised otherwise it
>> will be difficult to get at the data you need in an efficient manner.
>
> Not true. If your needs are simple for example, normalisation can increase
> the complexity of a schema, hence increasing development time needed.
> Sometimes for example you could use something like a SET type, and search
> for something in it using FIND_IN_SET().
I disagree. The database should ALWAYS be normalised to at least the 3rd
normal form. Sometimes going beyond that to 4NF, 5NF or 6NF becomes too
complex.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
> --
> Richard Heyes
>
> +----------------------------------------+
> | Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
> | http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
> +----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
Tony Marston wrote:
> "Richard Heyes" <richardhphpguru.org> wrote in message
> news:481ED03B.7090200phpguru.org...
>>> The database must be properly normalised otherwise it
>>> will be difficult to get at the data you need in an efficient manner.
>> Not true. If your needs are simple for example, normalisation can increase
>> the complexity of a schema, hence increasing development time needed.
>> Sometimes for example you could use something like a SET type, and search
>> for something in it using FIND_IN_SET().
>
> I disagree. The database should ALWAYS be normalised to at least the 3rd
> normal form. Sometimes going beyond that to 4NF, 5NF or 6NF becomes too
> complex.
Sometimes it's just a waste of time. If your site isn't that busy, and
speed isn't crucial, why waste the time using a more complicated
database structure?
--
Richard Heyes
+----------------------------------------+
| Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
| http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
+----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
"Richard Heyes" <richardhphpguru.org> wrote in message
news:481EDD2C.5030209phpguru.org...
> Tony Marston wrote:
>> "Richard Heyes" <richardhphpguru.org> wrote in message
>> news:481ED03B.7090200phpguru.org...
>>>> The database must be properly normalised otherwise it
>>>> will be difficult to get at the data you need in an efficient manner.
>>> Not true. If your needs are simple for example, normalisation can
>>> increase the complexity of a schema, hence increasing development time
>>> needed. Sometimes for example you could use something like a SET type,
>>> and search for something in it using FIND_IN_SET().
>>
>> I disagree. The database should ALWAYS be normalised to at least the 3rd
>> normal form. Sometimes going beyond that to 4NF, 5NF or 6NF becomes too
>> complex.
>
> Sometimes it's just a waste of time. If your site isn't that busy, and
> speed isn't crucial, why waste the time using a more complicated database
> structure?
I do not agree that creating a database which is normalised to3NF is a waste
of time. On the contrary, a totally un-normalised database is nothing but a
problem waiting to bite you in the a**e. Computer systems have a habit of
growing over time, and if you don't follow the rules of normalisation your
database will end up as the biggest bottleneck.
Anyone who doesn't know how to reach 3NF shouldn't be designing databases.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
> --
> Richard Heyes
>
> +----------------------------------------+
> | Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
> | http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
> +----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
> I do not agree that creating a database which is normalised to3NF is a waste
> of time.
It isn't always, but it is sometimes. When time is a (significant)
factor, getting something up and running (which has acceptable
performance) may be more impotant than creating a technically perfect
solution. In fact creating something that is technically perfect is
often just a pipe dream for programmers.
> On the contrary, a totally un-normalised database is nothing but a
> problem waiting to bite you in the a**e.
So you can:
a) Create something that gets you to market as fast as possible that is
"good enough".
b) Optimise/adjust the structure later.
IME though, b) rarely happens.
> Computer systems have a habit of
> growing over time
Really?
> ...and if you don't follow the rules of normalisation your
> database will end up as the biggest bottleneck.
Granted it's more likely, but not a given. You just need developers who
have discipline, oh and a good memory helps.
> Anyone who doesn't know how to reach 3NF shouldn't be designing databases.
Rubbish. It helps, in particular for how you can optimise you structure
without duplicating data (too much), but shouldn't be a requirement.
--
Richard Heyes
+----------------------------------------+
| Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
| http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
+----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
On May 5, 2008, at 6:21 AM, Tony Marston wrote:
>
>
>
> Anyone who doesn't know how to reach 3NF shouldn't be designing
> databases.
Just out of curiosity... How many Records do you need to have in a
database before you'll start seeing a performance boost from doing
that? I have written a few database apps that work quite well with no
formal training in PHP or Database design.. Don't want to start any
wars here... I'm just curious :)
--
Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424-9337
www.raoset.com
japruimraoset.com
attached mail follows:
>> Anyone who doesn't know how to reach 3NF shouldn't be designing
>> databases.
>
> Just out of curiosity... How many Records do you need to have in a
> database before you'll start seeing a performance boost from doing that?
There's no hard and fast rule. When it becomes a chore to maintain I
suppose (which you could say, is more than one...).
--
Richard Heyes
+----------------------------------------+
| Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
| http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
+----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
"Richard Heyes" <richardhphpguru.org> wrote in message
news:481EF634.6010705phpguru.org...
>> I do not agree that creating a database which is normalised to3NF is a
>> waste of time.
>
> It isn't always, but it is sometimes. When time is a (significant) factor,
> getting something up and running (which has acceptable performance) may be
> more impotant than creating a technically perfect solution. In fact
> creating something that is technically perfect is often just a pipe dream
> for programmers.
You obviously do not understand what "technically perfect" means when it
comes to data normalisation. 3NF is considered to be "good enough" while
4NF, 5NF and 6NF is considered to be "perfect". But there is such a thing as
"too perfect" which is why even C J Date (the father of relational theory)
said that de-normalsation is an acceptable practice. Every database designer
worth his salt should be able to achieve 3NF without breaking into a sweat,
while 4/5/6NF are entirely optional, and only worth it under paricular
circumstances.
> > On the contrary, a totally un-normalised database is nothing but a
>> problem waiting to bite you in the a**e.
>
> So you can:
>
> a) Create something that gets you to market as fast as possible that is
> "good enough".
> b) Optimise/adjust the structure later.
>
> IME though, b) rarely happens.
That's why solutions which are thrown together are often incapable of being
expanded to include new requirements. If you create a "throw away" solution
then never try to expand it, simply throw it away and start again.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
> > Computer systems have a habit of
>> growing over time
>
> Really?
>
>> ...and if you don't follow the rules of normalisation your database will
>> end up as the biggest bottleneck.
>
> Granted it's more likely, but not a given. You just need developers who
> have discipline, oh and a good memory helps.
>
>> Anyone who doesn't know how to reach 3NF shouldn't be designing
>> databases.
>
> Rubbish. It helps, in particular for how you can optimise you structure
> without duplicating data (too much), but shouldn't be a requirement.
>
> --
> Richard Heyes
>
> +----------------------------------------+
> | Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
> | http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
> +----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
"Jason Pruim" <japruimraoset.com> wrote in message
news:36133942-D547-43E4-9521-8B8C1D80D206raoset.com...
>
> On May 5, 2008, at 6:21 AM, Tony Marston wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone who doesn't know how to reach 3NF shouldn't be designing
>> databases.
>
> Just out of curiosity... How many Records do you need to have in a
> database before you'll start seeing a performance boost from doing that?
> I have written a few database apps that work quite well with no formal
> training in PHP or Database design.. Don't want to start any wars here...
> I'm just curious :)
It is not the number of records which is the deciding factor - it is:
a) is the data want in the right place (for easy access)?
b) can it be upated easily?
For example, many years ago I had to take over maintenance of a database
which was designed b someone who was not technically competent. There were 2
paticular tables, "order_header" and "order_lines". The order had a status
value, as did each of the order lines. So where did this twit choose to
store the order status? - you've guessed it, on the order_line record. His
rationale was that when traversing the order_line recods it was easier to
have the order_status on that record instead of having to perform a separate
read of the order_header record. The flaw in this argument was that when you
wanted to change the status of an order you had to update every order_line
record. Problems arose later when a software bug (introduced by him, BTW)
left different values for order_status across different order_lines.
The rules of normalisation dictate that order_status goes on the
order_header record, and is not dupliacted across several order_line
records.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
> --
>
> Jason Pruim
> Raoset Inc.
> Technology Manager
> MQC Specialist
> 3251 132nd ave
> Holland, MI, 49424-9337
> www.raoset.com
> japruimraoset.com
>
>
>
attached mail follows:
> You obviously do not understand what "technically perfect" means when it
> comes to data normalisation.
Obviously.
> That's why solutions which are thrown together are often incapable of being
> expanded to include new requirements.
I've never adovocated "throwing together" a solution. Merely that the
solutions proposed by programmers or database designers aren't always
necessary.
> If you create a "throw away" solution
> then never try to expand it, simply throw it away and start again.
For what reason? If you create a working solution and never try to
expand it, chances are you don't need to, so what's the advantage in
throwing it away and generating work for yourself in reproducing it?
--
Richard Heyes
+----------------------------------------+
| Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
| http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
+----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 3:15 AM, Jorge <japrejamsn.com> wrote:
> First I would like to say that I have had PHP experience but not enough to
> say I am a PHP developer.
>
> I want to use PHP to build a site that uses MySQL, I am building it from
> scratch so I don't know where to start, should I start with PHP and design a
> database around my code, or should I designs the db and design the site are
> the db.
>
> is it just a matter of preference or is there a recommended way to do
> this?
>
>
I think while Richard and Tony are duking it out, maybe you could explain a
little more about this application. How big do you think it will be. How
much acitivity, etc? That would probably help us point you in the right
direction.
--
-Dan Joseph
www.canishosting.com - Plans start $1.99/month. Reseller plans and
Dedicated servers available.
"Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for the rest of the day.
Light a man on fire, and will be warm for the rest of his life."
attached mail follows:
On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 10:31 +0100, Tony Marston wrote:
> "Richard Heyes" <richardhphpguru.org> wrote in message
> news:481ED03B.7090200phpguru.org...
> > > The database must be properly normalised otherwise it
> >> will be difficult to get at the data you need in an efficient manner.
> >
> > Not true. If your needs are simple for example, normalisation can increase
> > the complexity of a schema, hence increasing development time needed.
> > Sometimes for example you could use something like a SET type, and search
> > for something in it using FIND_IN_SET().
>
> I disagree. The database should ALWAYS be normalised to at least the 3rd
> normal form. Sometimes going beyond that to 4NF, 5NF or 6NF becomes too
> complex.
I'd have to agree for the most part. There are times when you
specifically will include redundancy for speed, but as a newbie you
probably won't be thinking about that.
Cheers,
Rob.
--
http://www.interjinn.com
Application and Templating Framework for PHP
attached mail follows:
On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 11:10 +0100, Richard Heyes wrote:
> Tony Marston wrote:
> > "Richard Heyes" <richardhphpguru.org> wrote in message
> > news:481ED03B.7090200phpguru.org...
> >>> The database must be properly normalised otherwise it
> >>> will be difficult to get at the data you need in an efficient manner.
> >> Not true. If your needs are simple for example, normalisation can increase
> >> the complexity of a schema, hence increasing development time needed.
> >> Sometimes for example you could use something like a SET type, and search
> >> for something in it using FIND_IN_SET().
> >
> > I disagree. The database should ALWAYS be normalised to at least the 3rd
> > normal form. Sometimes going beyond that to 4NF, 5NF or 6NF becomes too
> > complex.
>
> Sometimes it's just a waste of time. If your site isn't that busy, and
> speed isn't crucial, why waste the time using a more complicated
> database structure?
Hmmm, my last post should have clarified I agreed primarily with 3rd
normal form. Higher levels don't usually have the same kind of payoff.
Cheers,
Rob.
--
http://www.interjinn.com
Application and Templating Framework for PHP
attached mail follows:
On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 13:51 +0100, Tony Marston wrote:
> "Richard Heyes" <richardhphpguru.org> wrote in message
> news:481EF634.6010705phpguru.org...
> >> I do not agree that creating a database which is normalised to3NF is a
> >> waste of time.
> >
> > It isn't always, but it is sometimes. When time is a (significant) factor,
> > getting something up and running (which has acceptable performance) may be
> > more impotant than creating a technically perfect solution. In fact
> > creating something that is technically perfect is often just a pipe dream
> > for programmers.
>
> You obviously do not understand what "technically perfect" means when it
> comes to data normalisation. 3NF is considered to be "good enough" while
> 4NF, 5NF and 6NF is considered to be "perfect".
Perfectly tedious ;)
Cheers,
Rob.
--
http://www.interjinn.com
Application and Templating Framework for PHP
attached mail follows:
On May 5, 2008, at 9:43 AM, Dan Joseph wrote:
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 3:15 AM, Jorge <japrejamsn.com> wrote:
>
>> First I would like to say that I have had PHP experience but not
>> enough to
>> say I am a PHP developer.
>>
>> I want to use PHP to build a site that uses MySQL, I am building
>> it from
>> scratch so I don't know where to start, should I start with PHP and
>> design a
>> database around my code, or should I designs the db and design the
>> site are
>> the db.
>>
>> is it just a matter of preference or is there a recommended way to do
>> this?
>>
>>
> I think while Richard and Tony are duking it out, maybe you could
> explain a
> little more about this application. How big do you think it will
> be. How
> much acitivity, etc? That would probably help us point you in the
> right
> direction.
Right now I just have 1 application, with a small account in it, it's
about 1,000 records... But I plan on marketing the program which would
(Hopefully) increase the user base and total records. I could see
having 20-30 customers with all with around 1,000 to 30,000+ names in
the database. At least that's what I'm hoping for.
We'll see how the marketing goes! :)
--
Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424-9337
www.raoset.com
japruimraoset.com
attached mail follows:
"Richard Heyes" <richardhphpguru.org> wrote in message
news:481F096C.9040107phpguru.org...
>> You obviously do not understand what "technically perfect" means when it
>> comes to data normalisation.
>
> Obviously.
>
>> That's why solutions which are thrown together are often incapable of
>> being expanded to include new requirements.
>
> I've never adovocated "throwing together" a solution. Merely that the
> solutions proposed by programmers or database designers aren't always
> necessary.
I never use databases which have been designed by others, especially DBAs
who have fancy but often unrealistic ideas on how databases should be
designed. I design the databases myself, then write the code to access them.
If I later find that I need to change the database design then I can do so
without having to ask anyone's permission.
> > If you create a "throw away" solution
>> then never try to expand it, simply throw it away and start again.
>
> For what reason? If you create a working solution and never try to expand
> it, chances are you don't need to, so what's the advantage in throwing it
> away and generating work for yourself in reproducing it?
Your experience in the real world must be very limited as it is often the
case where a customer starts off with a "simple" requirement then keeps
expanding it as time goes by as he dreams up more things that the system
should do for him. If at day #1 you say "these reqirements are very simple,
therefore require nothing more than a cheap and chearful solution which can
be thrown together in a few minutes" you end up with a system that is not
designed to be expanded. As soon as the first enhancement request comes in
you will find yourself on the tail of a snake.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
> --
> Richard Heyes
>
> +----------------------------------------+
> | Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
> | http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
> +----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
> Right now I just have 1 application, with a small account in it, it's
> about 1,000 records... But I plan on marketing the program which would
> (Hopefully) increase the user base and total records. I could see having
> 20-30 customers with all with around 1,000 to 30,000+ names in the
> database. At least that's what I'm hoping for.
Well that's easy:
+----------------+
| Accounts |
+-------+--------+
| ac_id | ac_foo |
+-------+--------+
|
| +------------------+
| | Names |
| +---------+--------+
+----> | na_acid | na_foo |
+---------+--------+
How's that for ASCII art? :-)
--
Richard Heyes
+----------------------------------------+
| Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
| http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
+----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
> Your experience in the real world must be very limited
Clearly.
> as it is often the
> case where a customer starts off with a "simple" requirement then keeps
> expanding it as time goes by as he dreams up more things that the system
> should do for him. If at day #1 you say "these reqirements are very simple,
> therefore require nothing more than a cheap and chearful solution which can
> be thrown together in a few minutes" you end up with a system that is not
> designed to be expanded. As soon as the first enhancement request comes in
> you will find yourself on the tail of a snake.
Alternatively you make a solution that fulfils the requirements of the
customer, without being "cheap and cheerful" and is designed well to
accomodate future modifications, and make it resolutely clear that any
future modification may take longer since schema changes may be required.
--
Richard Heyes
+----------------------------------------+
| Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
| http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
+----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
"Richard Heyes" <richardhphpguru.org> wrote in message
news:481F17D3.1000508phpguru.org...
>> Your experience in the real world must be very limited
>
> Clearly.
>
> > as it is often the
>> case where a customer starts off with a "simple" requirement then keeps
>> expanding it as time goes by as he dreams up more things that the system
>> should do for him. If at day #1 you say "these reqirements are very
>> simple, therefore require nothing more than a cheap and chearful solution
>> which can be thrown together in a few minutes" you end up with a system
>> that is not designed to be expanded. As soon as the first enhancement
>> request comes in you will find yourself on the tail of a snake.
>
> Alternatively you make a solution that fulfils the requirements of the
> customer, without being "cheap and cheerful" and is designed well to
Then surely "designed well" would include a normalised database?
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
> accomodate future modifications, and make it resolutely clear that any
> future modification may take longer since schema changes may be required.
>
> --
> Richard Heyes
>
> +----------------------------------------+
> | Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
> | http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
> +----------------------------------------+
attached mail follows:
On May 5, 2008, at 10:11 AM, Richard Heyes wrote:
>> Right now I just have 1 application, with a small account in it,
>> it's about 1,000 records... But I plan on marketing the program
>> which would (Hopefully) increase the user base and total records. I
>> could see having 20-30 customers with all with around 1,000 to
>> 30,000+ names in the database. At least that's what I'm hoping for.
>
> Well that's easy:
>
>
> +----------------+
> | Accounts |
> +-------+--------+
> | ac_id | ac_foo |
> +-------+--------+
> |
> | +------------------+
> | | Names |
> | +---------+--------+
> +----> | na_acid | na_foo |
> +---------+--------+
>
At it's most basic part, that is exactly what I have :)
> How's that for ASCII art? :-)
I've seen better ;)
--
Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424-9337
www.raoset.com
japruimraoset.com
attached mail follows:
HI!
I do not use PEARm then find email address from email.
Dose anyone know how to get it??
It does noe blow;
ereg("^From: \s+ .*", $data) ;
Regards,
yui
2008/5/5 Richard Heyes <richardhphpguru.org>:
>
>
> > I would like to retrieve email address from email with regular expression.
> >
> > ------email------------
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > From: testaddressgmail.com
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > if anybody know how to do it, please send me email.
> >
>
> Can, worms, everywhere. Try looking at the Mail::RFC822 package in PEAR.
> There's also a shortcut function for just matching an Interweb email
> address.
>
> --
> Richard Heyes
>
> +----------------------------------------+
> | Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive |
> | http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive |
> +----------------------------------------+
>
attached mail follows:
My main problem with using xdebug was that it seemed to require KDE to
interpret the traces that it took, which I don't have installed on my
server. I only spent 15 minutes looking at it, though, so that could
be completely unjustified...
Would upgrading glibc help?
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Mario Guenterberg <mghavelsoft.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 10:24:03PM -0700, Waynn Lue wrote:
>
> > *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x0000002a9956d000 ***
>
> Hi Waynn,
>
> try to use xdebug instead of APD to profile you app. There is a problem with your glibc
> version and your APD version.
>
> In my environment php 5.2.6 with suhosin/apc, apache 2.2.8 and xdebug 2.0.2 it works fine.
>
> Greetings
> Mario
>
> --
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GCS/CM d- s++: a+ C++++>$ UBL*++++$ P++ L+++ E--- W+++ N+ o-- K- w O- M-
> V-- PS++ PE++ Y PGP+++ t--- 5 X++++ R++ tv- b+++ DI D++++ G++ e* h----
> r+++ y++++
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
attached mail follows:
Waynn Lue wrote:
> My main problem with using xdebug was that it seemed to require KDE to
> interpret the traces that it took, which I don't have installed on my
> server. I only spent 15 minutes looking at it, though, so that could
> be completely unjustified...
>
> Would upgrading glibc help?
Hi,
Recently there is a webinterface for interpreting the results of XDebug:
http://blog.agoraproduction.com/index.php?/archives/67-XDebug-to-finally-get-a-Web-Frontend.html
Maybe it is for your interest.
--
Aschwin Wesselius
/'What you would like to be done to you, do that to the other....'/
attached mail follows:
On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 02:41:17AM -0700, Waynn Lue wrote:
> My main problem with using xdebug was that it seemed to require KDE to
> interpret the traces that it took, which I don't have installed on my
> server. I only spent 15 minutes looking at it, though, so that could
> be completely unjustified...
>
> Would upgrading glibc help?
>
> On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Mario Guenterberg <mghavelsoft.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 10:24:03PM -0700, Waynn Lue wrote:
> >
> > > *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x0000002a9956d000 ***
> >
> > Hi Waynn,
> >
> > try to use xdebug instead of APD to profile you app. There is a problem with your glibc
> > version and your APD version.
> >
> > In my environment php 5.2.6 with suhosin/apc, apache 2.2.8 and xdebug 2.0.2 it works fine.
Upgrading the glibc on a server is not the best choice to solve a
problem with a extension for php ;-).
There's a webfrontend for xdebug.
Greetings
guenti
--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS/CM d- s++: a+ C++++>$ UBL*++++$ P++ L+++ E--- W+++ N+ o-- K- w O- M-
V-- PS++ PE++ Y PGP+++ t--- 5 X++++ R++ tv- b+++ DI D++++ G++ e* h----
r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
attached mail follows:
Oh Yes this helped, thanks a lot :)
I was missing the callback part ;)
Regards,
Thiago
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Jim Lucas [mailto:listscmsws.com]
Enviada em: sexta-feira, 2 de maio de 2008 15:26
Para: Thiago Pojda
Assunto: Re: [PHP] set_error_handler help
Thiago Pojda wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
>
>
> I'm trying some custom error handling functions in order to get emails
when
> fatal errors come up in my production website. The thing is, I went to
> phpclasses and there was a good one, but it was a class.
>
>
>
> I'm very slow today, so I could not figure out how to get it working. So,
I
> just removed it from the classs and used the function part. Which worked,
> but it got me confused:
>
>
>
> Is there any way to use a class to handle errors? I've tried some stuff
like
> set_error_handler("Error_Handler::logError" and such, but with no luck.
>
>
>
>
>
> Any hints?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
Go here
http://us2.php.net/set_error_handler
Notice that the first parameter can be a callback function.
Now click on call back and you will see how to setup an array with the
object/method set so it will call a method within your object.
http://us2.php.net/manual/en/language.pseudo-types.php#language.types.callba
ck
Hope that helps
--
Jim Lucas
"Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them."
Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare
attached mail follows:
Am 2008-04-28 15:24:53, schrieb Richard Lynch:
> If you want any kind of volume, you pay a gateway.
>
> Or you could invest a few billion and build your own. :-)
I am using a bunch of GSM/GPRS/EDGE modems which have cost me arround
105 Euro/Modem and bought some SIMs from O2, Vodaphone, D2, T-Mobile,
Bougues Telecom Orange and SFR to setup my own Gateway between France
and Germany...
In Morocco, Turkey and Iran I have simpel P1/200MHz Computers with
appropriated Modem and SIM connected and it goes over ADSL...
So currently I am connection 5 countries...
I do not need Billion.... only a One-Time-Investment of arround
4.000 Euro and then per day 800 Euro SMS invoices...
Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFIGOmZC0FPBMSS+BIRAtpgAJ91rfttNmzNw14n0eoipqQUC+Z4UACff/gt
uOX4i/75U9TELppCTCLrwto=
=N/F2
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
attached mail follows:
Forwarding to the correct mailing list. You should get flames...*cough* I
mean, answers here :)
Regards,
Thiago
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Ron Piggott [mailto:ron.phpactsministries.org]
Enviada em: domingo, 4 de maio de 2008 19:35
Para: PHP DB
Assunto: [PHP-DB] Shopping cart session handling
I am writing a shopping cart. I wanted some input on session handling
for a shopping cart that is secure.
At this time I am not programming for credit card processing. I am
going to forward onto PayPal for payment initially. But I want to do a
good job with security.
Ron
--
PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
attached mail follows:
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Jon L. <jonllmsedgmail.com> wrote:
> If you aren't already, I recommend putting to use a JS library with Ajax
> support.
> Nothing else, they can reduce the browser compatibility overhead coding
> you'll need to do.
I found that they also reduce or eliminate some memory leaks in the
web browser that seem to be common for most of the AJAX examples I
have seen on the web.
Andrew
attached mail follows:
At 6:49 PM -0400 5/4/08, Robert Cummings wrote:
>On Sun, 2008-05-04 at 17:27 -0500, Mike Potter wrote:
> > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Paul Scott wrote:
>>
> > > FCKEditor, TinyMCE and a host of others. All JS based, so not really
>> > relevant on a PHP list though
>>
> > Whereas, SnippetMaster *is* PHP-based. Sad if it's the only one, I
>> thought (hoped) there would be more.
>
>When you can't find what you want, feel free to pick up you keyboard and
>create the solution. Then be sure to share it with everyone else.
>
>Cheers,
>Rob.
To all:
FCKEditor and TinyMCE are impressive in what they do, but they
produce a mix of css and html -- that's not good in my book.
SnippetMaster is kind of neat in that it is PHP and uses editable regions.
I've been trying to come up with an alternative -- here's my twist:
http://www.webbytedd.com/a/easy-page-db
Please note the [Edit Mode] link on the top right of the page.
I'm not willing to share the code at this point because I haven't
worked out all the bugs, but I'm sure the demo expresses my idea.
My quandary is how much freedom do I give the client in allowing them
to use html tags? The client is not going to deliberately try to mess
up their own site, but not having well formed html can create
problems.
I am open to comments and suggestions.
Cheers,
tedd
--
-------
http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com
attached mail follows:
On May 5, 2008, at 9:43 AM, tedd wrote:
> At 6:49 PM -0400 5/4/08, Robert Cummings wrote:
>> On Sun, 2008-05-04 at 17:27 -0500, Mike Potter wrote:
>> > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Paul Scott wrote:
>>>
>> > > FCKEditor, TinyMCE and a host of others. All JS based, so not
>> really
>>> > relevant on a PHP list though
>>>
>> > Whereas, SnippetMaster *is* PHP-based. Sad if it's the only one, I
>>> thought (hoped) there would be more.
>>
>> When you can't find what you want, feel free to pick up you
>> keyboard and
>> create the solution. Then be sure to share it with everyone else.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Rob.
>
> To all:
>
> FCKEditor and TinyMCE are impressive in what they do, but they
> produce a mix of css and html -- that's not good in my book.
>
> SnippetMaster is kind of neat in that it is PHP and uses editable
> regions.
>
> I've been trying to come up with an alternative -- here's my twist:
>
> http://www.webbytedd.com/a/easy-page-db
>
> Please note the [Edit Mode] link on the top right of the page.
>
> I'm not willing to share the code at this point because I haven't
> worked out all the bugs, but I'm sure the demo expresses my idea.
>
> My quandary is how much freedom do I give the client in allowing
> them to use html tags? The client is not going to deliberately try
> to mess up their own site, but not having well formed html can
> create problems.
>
> I am open to comments and suggestions.
Hey tedd,
Just as an idea, would it be alot of work to do a "basic" editor, and
then have an "advanced" button? That way, for the people who don't
know as much they can just stay in the basic part that lets them
pretty much type in the info and the editor changes it into HTML and
advanced basically gives them a blank slate to work with? Just a
thought..
--
Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424-9337
www.raoset.com
japruimraoset.com
attached mail follows:
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:43 AM, tedd <tedd.sperlinggmail.com> wrote:
> FCKEditor and TinyMCE are impressive in what they do, but they produce a
> mix of css and html -- that's not good in my book.
This is an interesting idea. Most clients don't want to see a text
area to input raw html though. In the many years I've done this only
3 people have ever requested it specifically out of hundreds. You
might want to look into shoving generated markup through ext/tidy. It
might have some options to clean up all that embedded css. Maybe I'll
have to look into it later when I have some free time. I'm tired of
seeing those mso styles from Word. ;)
attached mail follows:
I would like a book on implementing SOAP geared for someone with
no SOAP experience. Hopefully SOAP can be used with PHP 4?!?
Many thanks...
Todd
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